Why the Advanced Server should become the Expert Server

Continuing the discussion from Friday Night Flight - Weekend TJ Escape:

I must admit there are more and more occasions where I’m starting to lose patience with controlling on the Advanced Server. There are just far too many people flying on it who don’t have a clue what they’re doing. I’m not just talking about more complex commands like following pattern instructions but relatively simple things. Yesterday at KPSP there was someone with their obligatory 25,000 XP starting to taxi without clearance, so I warned them. So they switched to tower and requested take off despite being nowhere near the runway. This is just clueless, but because controllers are meant to give multiple warnings etc before ghosting it just causes extra hassle, especially when the airport is busy. Personally I would have liked to get rid of them as soon as they started to taxi without permission, but this would go against the ethos of being an advanced controller and I would not wish to lose that privilege.

Then there are the pilots who barrel in at 12,000ft and 600kts 10 miles from the airport and request landing. How can you give someone like that pattern instructions and expect them to fit in with others who are at correct altitudes and airspeeds for landing ? Again in an ideal world I would ghost them immediately. If the Advanced Server is meant to create a more “realistic” experience by having controllers who know what they’re doing, then surely the same should apply for pilots to maintain this experience.

So I’m suggesting it’s time to simply change the Advanced Server to the Expert and make it very clear so you know before you start a flight. If you pushback or taxi without clearance, you’re gone. If you request landing at a ridiculous altitude and speed relative to your distance from the airport, you’re gone. If you’re sequenced and you don’t follow that sequence, you’re gone. And if you don’t change frequency after the first time of asking, you’re gone ! So many more things as well I’m sure…

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I agree the playground is becoming a free flight server and advanced is becoming playground it’s annoying.

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Yes, I can understand the devs’ reticence in having the Expert. I’m sure it costs more time and money to have another server going, so why don’t we all agree that the rules of the Expert will simply now be applied to the Advanced ? Give a week’s notice, pin announcements to this forum, even put a screen in the app itself so everybody knows.

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I think there should also be something like if you get ghosted 3 times you et ghosted for a week or something like that

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I would fly on the Advanced server or an Expert server if the ATC used real world approaches.

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I THINK there should be a test to get in it.

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Moved to Features! :)

I like this idea! There should be a test, even for pilots.

But there are so many (surely thousands) of subscribers it would be logistically impossible to test all of them !

Why not tighten up the rules of the Advanced Server, rename it the Expert and perhaps when you start a flight a screen pops up warning you of the rules and their strict enforcement. It could direct users to this site and the tutorials page for help, or extol the virtues of the other two servers for those who wish to fly in a freer environment.

I agree with @JDE1303 that the Advanced is slowly becoming the playground.

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Yes I was at FNF on advanced an there were people cutting in line and people taxiing through me

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@Simon_H… What’s in a Name! It’s not the title it’s the qualifications that matter. I don’t like the ghost but it’s served it purpose most of the time. We now have an Advanced ATC Controller Group who have been vetted, are closely supervised and have passed through multiple training/testing phases. I trust them implicitly. Let the Advance Controllers pull the trigger based on there judgement and the situation. Pilots; Get Ghosted and bent out of shape use the PM to resolve your differences. 95+% of Ghosting on the Advanced are"Pilot Error" or just plan “Pilot Ignorance”! Max Sends

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Agreed with max. Start ghosting. It’s the only way to get the point across as of now.

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I fully agree I was just at PSP and the amount of pilots that can’t follow sequencing and pattern instructions is astounding. Requesting taxi from the terminal with no push back. You tell them to push back and they request taxi again. Tell a pilot to go around and they land it’s highly annoying. And the fact we have to warn serval times before ghosting becomes a bare. Stricter rules for the advanced server need to come.

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I’m not criticising the ghosting idea Max, it’s more the guidelines as to when we can/can’t do it. At the moment we are told to give multiple warnings before ghosting someone, and I’m merely saying that we shouldn’t have to. If you fly on the advanced (or expert) server, you should know how to request a pushback and taxi in the correct order. You should know the difference between left and right downwind. You should know roughly correct altitudes and speeds in relation to your proximity to the airport when descending. If you don’t know these you shouldn’t be on this server and we should be able to ghost you there and then, not have to waste time issuing warnings and further instructions, by which time you’ve already interefered with other pilots and sequencing.

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Couldn’t agree more Brandon, funnily enough I just flew into KPSP (I was Delta 309). I was about 20 miles out at 9000ft, approx 240kts. You sequenced me into right downwind for 31L, told me who to follow, all fine and dandy. Then the Qantas A380 decides to come in at 12,000ft and 600kts (and I’m not exaggerating, it really was), overtakes me of course and then you have to resequence, tell me to slow down, and it just messes up your whole system and means you have to stress out issuing a whole load of new commands.
You should have been able to ditch him the moment you saw his altitude and speed, there was no realism in the way he was flying. But with the current guidelines you risk a reprimand if you had done that and he had complained !

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Yep no doubt there was no way for me to get him behind you sorry thanks for resequencing. Before that I had someone approaching from the west told him to enter downwind as he was at FL120 he just dilly dallied around requested inbound about 5 times and never entered downwind. Frustrating.

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I think advanced needs to become much more strict with ghosting. If you taxi, let alone take off or land without permission, you’re gone. Immediately.

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Advanced is fine as of now. Only at FNF’s it gets messy which it shouldn’t.

Completely endorse this idea. There is ghosting for a reason and if the server is getting too out of hand ghosting needs to be stepped up.

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Exactly, again simple lack of knowledge about how to approach an airport and they should be got rid of straight away. Why should you (and bear in mind you’ve had to take a test to be permitted to control on this server) have to be disrupted by pilots like this ? And it’s not just you but all the other pilots flying correctly who suffer too.

I never know what to do with pilots who call inbound at these ridiculous altitudes and speeds. Wherever you tell them to go (even if they follow the instructions) it will invariably mess up the pattern for everyone else.

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I feel there needs to be tutorials in the app on how to use approach and interaction with ATC, I don’t believe there is at the moment. It’s actually not fair because people with this app probably have no idea, and there’s no clear tutorial to help them.

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