What is the logic behind saying reports are not punishments?

I have less than 5 reports every year. But 1 report is a punishment because it make me go to the training server. I do not learn, why? Because most reports is because controller is angry. Ok I make small mistake but most reports is because controller is angry.

You’re supposed to use the time you’re back at training server to learn what you did wrong, and to make sure it won’t happen again. It’s not intended to be a punishment.

If you make a small mistake you will be warned and given time to correct that mistake before being violated. Controllers won’t just ghost you for no reason just because they’re angry and they feel like it. We’re not trying to ruin the expert server experience by violating you, instead we’re trying to improve it by violating people who break the rules so it is kept reserved for serious users only. Send a message to your controller if you have any further concerns.

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Because:


Source


Getting an ATC violation is a learning curve as you go… Oh, I didn’t do that correct - what should I have done?

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I know I report the controller, sometimes the staff say I am right, sometimes staff say controller is right

Then what is the issue? As well as you make mistakes, so does the controller at times. This is why we have the option to appeal a report if it seems to be out of place.

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If you want the direct answer, in my opinion, reports from IFATC in the expert server are deliberately meant for people to get their act together and stop trolling and make the expert server less frustrating to fly in. Knowing full well that IFATC can only issue level 2 and 3 violations, these are mistakes made deliberately and not unknowingly made.

If you want me to clarify why I say these mistakes are made deliberately, read on, but I warn you that my explanation will be long, and if so, I would like to first ask that you read with understanding. If not, I have a question at the bottom for you to answer.

I want to start of by saying we are all humans and we all make mistakes, some more severe than others. At the end of the day, regardless of the mistake made, no matter the result, we will be okay.

I’d like to find out where is it said that it is not a punishment. Because to me, these are requirements and have to be enforced to reduce the possibility of trolls. Trolls have to be punished in the expert server because rules and whatever relevant procedures are expected to be followed.

I’ll use this, and other articles to explain my position and what and why I think. It is mentioned in the user guide that, “Violations can either be automatically generated (Level 1) or issued by ATC (Level 2 or 3) and are a way to moderate pilot behaviour on the Training and Expert Servers.”

From my understanding, Violations level 2 and 3 can only be received in the expert server and level 1 violations can be received on either training server or the expert server.

I quote from the article, to show what level 1, 2 and 3 violations are. Quote, “Level 1 violations are system-generated and will be received if a pilot violates a specific set of parameters on the Training and Expert servers. Examples of this are ground overspeed while taxiing, flight overspeed, aerobatics inside an airspace, and runway idle.”"*Examples of level 2 violations include pushing back or taxiing without permission, failure to maintain adequate separation, and newly added, unresponsive while climbing, descending, or maneuvering." and “Level 3 violation examples include taking off from or landing on the wrong runway, flying through other aircraft, and not following assigned ATC heading, altitude, or speed.

This is the new grade table we have. The requirements to enter the expert server is being grade 3, and grade 3’s requirements (in terms of violations) are to ensure that level1 violations stay below 5, and both level 2 and 3 violations be capped at 5, and the cap either violations of levels 2 and 3 is 5. These violations are to not exceed their maximum number in a year. There is also an additional requirement and it is: The total level 1 violations must be at least 50% less than the number of total landings.

When you select expert server, the description says “This is a server where published rules must be adhered to. All procedures are strictly enforced by ATC. Infractions may result in issued Violations.” When choosing the any server, a message pops up when you spawn. Read and understand what it means. I am presently in flight on my way back to WSSS so I will not be able to quote from there.

As for appealing violations, Schyllberg has said that you have an option to file an appeal for a report that seems out of place.

With all of the above in mind, let’s be realistic. The fact that you are in Expert server only reinforces the fact that you are a serious, mature and dedicated user who flies by the rules. Tutorials are expected to be already understood and known how to be executed. Any bad habits are expected to be left in the training server. There is no way a person that just downloaded IF and buys pro, and had no prior flight experience in IF enters the expert server immediately, so inexperience is not an excuse. Violations shouldn’t happen to begin with, in the expert server, system-generated or not, because the responsibility lies with any pilot to take the correct action should any warning be given. If you are specific to levels 2 and 3, IFATC will give warnings for most situations.

With regard to level 1 violations, these are, as mentioned system generated. You will have received a warning before violations occur. In this thread, one user flew under 10,000ft at 300 knots and he has received 5 system-generated violations. Schyllberg has mentioned there that it takes 20 seconds to get a system generated violation.

With regards to level 2 or 3 violation, this is a mistake that is made deliberately. Pushing back without permission, landing on the wrong runway etc. You have ATIS for the takeoff and landing runways. Why still make the mistake?

So my question to you is, how are you supposed to get these violations to begin with? You can’t get reported if you don’t make these simple mistakes, to begin with.

the report is punishment for your mistake. You make a mistake, the ATC punish you.
punishment has purposes - to make you not do the mistake again, or have revenge, or have deterrence for other people to make mistakes, or protect other people from your mistake, or vindication of rules.

maybe it is to make you learn better, but still, is a punishment

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What do you mean by revenge?

Mistakes are much easier to make than you think actually. A good reason would be not pulling up the HUD map in live cockpit (I honestly don’t know why this isn’t default) and not seeing another aircraft somehow. The white box can be invisible in certain weather conditions. Remember this is not a sim where you are fully immersed so there are way more mistakes caused by distractions, etc.

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I think you are missing the point here.

If you are flying, it is your airplane and your responsibility to manage the aircraft and its interactions.

Who’s mistake is it if you don’t see other traffic? Who’s mistake is it if you don’t pull up the HUD map? Not seeing other aircraft is an excuse. When IFATC came to Singapore, there was very heavy traffic and flow control had to be implemented. I had to make sure that instructions made sense and at the same time make sure that all interactions are done to perfection.

You aren’t immersed shouldn’t be a reason, I think that it only proves that more attention has to be paid.

Edit: should to shouldn’t

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I agree that a report by ATC is a punishment, but it is what is done after that matters

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I mean I’ve never had a ghost in my time flying since 2013 and I’m on the cusp of passing 5000 hrs… so it can definitely become unavoidable to rack up 6 reports in a year. How can one rack up that many?

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So true… 2,767 hours and 2,079 landings. No reports and no warnings to follow instructions or be reported. Not hard my friends… Keep it “Real™”

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training server is actually all right

It is actually not always physically possible to see an aircraft on final if there are too many planes around you unless you check the map. The white box blends into the sky, and the name often doesn’t show up.

Yeah, actually no one will report you even on expert, unless you lose seperation with someone else, but you will just look dumb.

This includes seeing other aircraft.

I have mentioned already that it is your responsibility to pull up the HUD - that includes the map, and pay attention

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HUD is not available in outside view which a lot of people use when taxiing.

No need to argue here. The fact that you can’t see an aircraft on final is a bug and the devs are gonna address it at some point.

In this case, I’ll zoom into level 2 and 3 violations only.

If you are taxiing on the outside view, traffic on the ground can be hard to detect, but this is not an excuse to simply go right through another aircraft.

As I have said,

and

you are responsible for the aircraft and happens to it. If there is a problem, troubleshoot it and move on.


Let me make myself clear on my intentions. I am merely presenting my points clearly and as specific as I can be.

I’d like to find out where is this stated as a bug.

Schyllberg has mentioned that if you think a report is out of place, you can file an appeal.


IF is an internet game. If you can’t see the aircraft, the chances are that no one can, neither can ATC. Since IFATC will warn you beforehand before issuing a level 2 or 3 violation, what are you trying to get at here?

have revenge means retribution because of your crime/mistake