What happened to the IFATC standard?

ATC
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Returning user here. I’ve recently bought a monthly subscription just to check out the game after a long pause.

After two days of flights in between ATC staffed airports (both low and high volumes of traffic) I have seen a lot of seperation “busts”, I was even sent into one after a plane which was 1000ft bassicaly right on top of me was descended towards my flight level… I’ve been forgotten twice (out of the 6 flights) and basically sent out of the airspace, was instructed into a holding pattern at a very busy EIDW using only one runway for some reason which only resulted in more backlog and worst of them all: witnessed 3 go arounds in a row because of bad seperation on final at VABB.. h

Is this just a total fluke, and am I really unlucky? Im deeply saddened to see the controlling standard decrease like this…

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IFATC Standards Concern
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As an IFATC, I often encounter situations where pilots disregard or misinterpret instructions.

For example, after an aircraft lands, prompt runway exit is crucial for issuing Line Up and Wait (LUAW) clearances for departing aircraft. Failure to exit the runway quickly can compromise separation between inbound and outbound flights, resulting in go-arounds.

Another cause of go-arounds is when a pilot, after receiving a LUAW instruction and told to hold short, begins lining up at very low speed (under 10 knots ground speed) while an inbound aircraft is approaching at high speed (over 140 knots indicated airspeed).

Pilots are responsible most of the time.

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Hello,

Thank you for the reply. I have been in IFATC for 2 years before retiring , so I share this experience. However the controlling standard does include management of pilots.. the past 2 days have been poor from the controller side, although I do understand your comment I just don’t think it’s the full explanation, these past two days have been horrendous to fly into controlled airports..

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I mean since last year I think controllers have become more lenient and understanding, like one time in EHAM I requested pushback the controller told me to hold position but then he forgot about me, 10 mins later I requested pushback again and he issued a “I’m sorry” command before approving. I mean they are humans too, and we have to understand their situation plus they can’t be expected to be extra strict bc each controller would have a different strictness level and it would create a situation where one controller would let something slide but another would not. So they have to become more lenient. Also regarding your separation and go around issues. I have experienced my fair share like when I was in a pattern to land in WII but the controller accidentally cleared a aircraft to takeoff so I had to go around but everyone makes mistakes and with 140+ aircraft coming in it is very hard to notice errors. I AM NOT AN IFATC MEMBER (for now..) but just my take

In summary, IFATC has become more lenient pilots have become more understandable . The last thing I want to feel as a pilot is constant stress of being reported or doing something wrong

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Although I can understand why this is your take from the outside, I have to give my honest opinion: I have been a controller in IFATC for 2+ years, back then someone would get absolutely flamed for performing like that. I can understand where you’re coming from but they’re (at least supposed to) be trained or experienced enough to handle these situations (like they used to years ago).

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As you described it best yourself: 2 years ago. A pretty long time…

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Is IFATC a social club? @Kyle_D seems like hes been gone for a while, returns and still calls himself IFATC. Im assuming there is annual hours or sessions required to stay a controller.

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Mistakes happen but i appreciate all the controllers who volunteer, especially the people who control approach daily. Somehow there is always one anytime of the day at schedlued airports, amazing.

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It depends on the situation. In a hub, it’s much easier for a controller to make mistakes due to the volume of traffic.

I won’t sugarcoat the fact that the standard has dropped quite a bit compared to several years ago. Although I wasn’t there to witness it during the earlier days of IFATC, I’ve heard from multiple “OG” users that IFATC used to be much stricter and would punish controllers harshly for mistakes on frequency. This often led to the same experienced controllers repeatedly opening hubs, while others avoided doing so out of fear of being demoted for making mistakes. As a result, hubs would frequently go without radar coverage because newer controllers were too hesitant to step up.

Because of this, IFATC leadership changed their approach and became more lenient with mistakes. Controllers are no longer demoted after just one bad session. This shift has helped reduce the number of times hubs go ATC-zero. However, as you mentioned, the overall standard has dropped somewhat because some of the newer controllers do not yet have the same level of experience or skill.

Busts can also happen for a variety of reasons. I occasionally get busts myself, and the most common cause is pilots failing to respond in a timely manner (often 45 seconds or more) or not properly intercepting the localizer during an ILS approach. Another challenge occurs when aircraft enter your airspace already in a conflicted situation. When traffic levels are high, it can be difficult to re-establish proper separation quickly.

That said, controllers with a repeated history of poor performance at hubs will still be demoted or placed back into a checkride process. I also won’t sugarcoat the fact that some controllers have egos and will open frequencies that are above their skill level. However, those who consistently perform poorly or repeatedly open positions beyond their abilities will eventually face consequences.

Overall, yes, the standard has dropped somewhat. However, the change has generally improved activity and created a healthier system—one where controllers are not afraid to open frequencies, push their skills, and gain experience.

As a final note, I personally haven’t had any bad experiences flying into the hub recently, so the situation you described could simply have been a fluke.

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Hi! It is very important that when you see these situations you message the controller and if the service is very bad, even take it up to the appeals team so things can change. It takes time to provide the evidences and send the messages but is is worth it so everyone is held accountable.

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If its a sharp turn to line up, the rule is no more than 10kts tho

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This statement does not represent the majority of IFATC members :sweat_smile:

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I support this movement. I want things to improve, not just from pilots but from controllers too.

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But, bro, pilots also need to understand that at hub airports, a single late response or misunderstanding can cause a giant rearrangement for incoming traffic.

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I agree Kyle !

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That could be the case, I think this message is neatly written. I am part of that older group, we used to get flamed for these mistakes. Don’t get me wrong: we did make mistakes, a lot of them. But indeed punishments were harder, and im guessing training was also harsher. Im all for more controller activity and I even support feedback/mistakes being made: that’s how we learn. For me the biggest problem about this is just some flights getting unnecessarily long , delay vectors, holdings and 360s because of an overwhelmed situation, etc. Busts can happen, and hey I wouldn’t have written this message if it was just seperation busts, but it is not as much fun if you’re just flying in circles in not that busy places because controllers are overwhelmed.

Id like to reiterate that I am not attacking anyone with this, that I fully understand mistakes can happen and that I would not like anyone to receive a punishment, I am just bringing light to a situation which as you say might just be a streak of bad luck.

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Hi I did get reached out to by one of the controllers, and gave him feedback on some situations. I am happy that he reached out by himself. Ill definitely reach out next time.

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Hello, it might’ve been lost in my poor English: I retired from IFATC years ago due to the at the time reducing quality and life getting in the way. I had been a specialist for 2 years and was a well known person within the club. I appreciate the time taken by controllers, it is not a attack on anyone.

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Hi, Kyle, welcome back! Feel free to DM the controller (s) concerned and provide feedback. It’s a great way to improve, learning through end user experience.

Hope to see you back in IFATC soon :slight_smile:

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Ah, this reminds me of back in the day when I would open up on the Advanced server and pre-global, where the approach controller is out and I’m begging on Slack, to get someone to take ground and FOR SURE approach since there are like 40 inbounds at the same time in the span of 20 minutes… Good times.

I will say, from my observations, yes, I think standards have dropped, as I do recall being criticized and even given advice on how to improve, and being heavy on the reporting button wasn’t super frowned upon when justified. In contrast, I’ve now noticed controllers are much more lenient, as you stated, which I think is due to the influx of new players and the explosion of aircraft on the expert server. I will also say that the skill set needed now is different from what it used to be.

Before, being super vigilant and really “on top” of things was the go-to, from what I remember, since it was much simpler to control, since the inputs you had were mostly sequencing, ground control (giveaways, taxi-to, etc.), and spacing for takeoffs.

Now, with the introduction of ground charts, more realistic planes, and, overall, a more feature-rich environment on both the pilot and especially ATC end, even I find myself struggling to get used to the new feel and being efficient even on the training server, so I can’t imagine being efficient on busy airports on expert during peak hours. For example, the implementation of ground taxi instructions, different approach types, SID and STARS, more realistic airports, and the manual calling for more realistic procedures when able added more to the mix for sure, and as I said, I was around in the region only days where really there were two airports to fly between within 20 minutes of each other, so I’ve been through my fair share of chaos on the ATC end.

Now I feel these skills are important for ATC foundations, but don’t really translate very well into real-life controlling on the expert server in terms of being very on top of sequencing, etc. (I will add that I have NOT been controlling as an IFATC controller since I left a few years back, but it seems the fundamentals of the onboarding process are the same, though I can be VERY wrong.)

Anywho, long story short, IMO I do feel it, and there prob can be some changes made, but looking back at the “OG” days, I think being a controller has now become a bit harder amid peak-hour chaos. Also I think a lot of this has to do with the expert server in general and not really on the controllers themselves as a whole, where I think actually the standards of the expert server are much lower when compared to back then on the advanced server (on the pilot end), and I hope that since the staff have taken notice, new changes and implementations will be made to make the expert server a more professional environment for everyone, which I think will trickle upwards.

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