Two Mile Final Markers

So when you have an arriving aircraft and an aircraft attempting to depart, the general rule is that if the inbound aircraft is within two miles of the threshold then the departing aircraft is to hold short of the runway until the inbound one has landed. At this point there isn’t enough time for the departing aircraft to clear the runway.
As it has been stated numerous times, the distance that an aircraft appears in tower view and on radar is in relation to the tower itself, not the runway threshold.
I believe it would be a good idea (at least on the TS) to have marks on a controller’s radar that mark the two mile final point on the extended centerline of each runway. In theory, it would look something like this:


Notice that on parallel runways that are offset the two mile mark is separate for each runway and on parallel runways that are not offset the line continues between the two runways.

Let me play Devil’ Advocate and ask this though: for those who are training to become IFATC, who begin to see these markings on their scope and become accustomed to having them, how much harder will it be for them to transition to a server that doesn’t have them? As with every IFATC member, they must know general spacing rules and be able to correctly, effectively, and efficiently determine the closure rates of aircraft, which is mainly done with visual cues, the distance indicator, and the ground speed indicator. What good would having an extra item to learn do when we already have all the necessary tools to give quality service? As a general rule of thumb, since the ‘distance’ marker is to the tower, you add or subtract a mile or two, depending on the airport you’re located at, and go from there

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Not a bad idea tbh🧐

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It is a good idea, but unnecessary. We already have the tools needed to sufficiently achieve the tasks required

I’d love to know of any tools available for getting an exact distance from an aircraft to the threshold of the runway.
Personally, I taught myself how to gauge runways I work by ‘flying’ the free mode cam to the end of the runway and seeing where the aircraft was on the map when it was two miles out. But other than doing this, a controller is purely making a general guess if an aircraft is actually two miles out or not.
I’ve seen controllers that will make an aircraft hold short when the inbound flight was 5+ miles out and after observing all of the factors I can only assume that it’s because they weren’t sure if they had the space to allow an immediate takeoff or not.

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Similar topic since you like this also

I don’t think that feature request has to do with this.

He said similar sir not exactly which means there’s some differences to what you have stated and what that one has stated

NOTE: please do not take this the wrong way I am not trying to belittle you

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I don’t see how taxiway signs can be related to an ATC map tool, but if you want to see it that way, that’s fine. Regardless if it’s similar or not, it doesn’t brings any contribution to the discussion of this feature request.

That said, let’s keep on topic. Feel free to send me a PM if you want to discuss about it :)

Not a bad idea… But this is something that doesn’t happen usually but sometimes planes will be told to line up before the other plane has landed. I’ve been on a plane irl where the Ryanair I was in was told to lineup and the BA landing flew over us!
Might vote at a later date though as I’m out of votes :)

Decided to be your 1st vote

@nicopizarro

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I would not say that in most cases it is because the controller cannot assess the distance. Many other factors also play a role here.
It is really often a question of the traffic, then of course, the approach speed and the behavior of the pilot taking off.
I don’t think your idea is bad, but unfortunately it doesn’t really make sense either.
Many pilots simply take too long to take off, cannot roll onto the runway and take off in one, but always have to stop. Over time you will get a look at it.

Have a good time.

No. You don’t really have the tools to see how far a plane is away from the airfield. Tracking speed is for approach and seeing if the speed matches on the radar for both planes in line. Here you have to look at the map and visually figure it out. You can’t visually figure it out. So these thresholds would be here on both ES and TS. All that you do is look at the map and look to see if the aircraft are at or beyond it. IRL if they are beyond it don’t clear anyone for take off. I hope that you understand my point because it is not really possible to do everything visually.

I like this idea too. Im out of votes, but all the devs have to do is draw a line in the ILS two miles away. Thats not much to ask for tbh. Anyways you all have a good point here.

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I really like this idea especially for beginners who are finding their way around ATC, i’ll try and free up a vote :)

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I like the idea but my only concern is new controller receives a GA aircraft and still uses the 2 mile final marker. This isn’t efficient and starts to create delays.

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@AviationReports

That is a valid point, so maybe implement it on Expert server since Infinite Flight Air Traffic Control would know better

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I agree with Aviation reports I don’t fully think that the training server air traffic control would understand the concept of the lines and how to effectively use them

Imagine that same scenario, but with no lines (as it is now). An inexperienced controller is going to mess up that situation anyway. At least with the line, he will have some sort of reference as to where he should have done what he needed to do.

Last night I was messing around at an airport in Japan. I wasn’t sure how far a particular runway was from tower so I did my little free cam trick.
Got a couple of interesting things out of this screenshot.

First, on the right runway you can see where the actual 2 mile mark would be for that runway.
In the program I was using to draw these measurements I had to place a reference ruler. That’s what’s on the left hand extended centerline. That one actually got me thinking, what if, instead of a single line crossing each extended centerline, there was a simple 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 down the side of each? That would complete the idea here and some. Now a controller could know just how far down their final a pilot is.
Food for thought.
You can also see the difference between the aircraft’s reported distance in the radar view vs the actual distance in the background. That runway has a 2 mile difference. I never got any landings on 16R during this time but that offset is pretty extreme, probably zero difference.
Even as an ATC with many many hours under my belt on the TS, I still think this would be a very useful tool for ATC.