We all know by now that once you have been cleared to land, there’s no need to report that they are on final. In 95% of all cases, ATC will instantly issue the “Avoid unnecessary reports” to the pilot without looking at their situation on the map.
Sometimes ATC gets caught up doing something else, and they don’t notice the situation the aircraft is in. For example, traffic could be to close behind them or traffic could still be on the runway. In many cases pilots who have right of way have to go around because ATC hasn’t issued a go-around to other aircraft. It’s frustrating having to go around yourself when other aircraft won’t.
Often when I am in these situations my only option to draw attention to myself is to use the report my position in the hopes that ATC will look over and realise the problem. So my message to ATC is: Next time someone issues a vague or irrelevant message, they may be trying to draw attention to themselves.
I’m confused with this point. If you’re too close to the aircraft in front of you, you tell tower that you’re on final? Of course it is tower’s responsibility to notice this conflict and deal with it accordingly, but also you can help the controller by slowing down to create space. If the aircraft behind you is too close, there is no need to go around. If ATC doesn’t notice this, it isn’t your fault. The aircraft behind you should initiate the go around on their own if not instructed by ATC.
I see your point, but if the airspace is busy, adding extra messages for no reason won’t help anyone.
I see. Hopefully the controller will notice it and give them the command. If they don’t listen then, they will be reported. In certain cases where the aircraft doesn’t execute a go around although the conflict is clear, they can be reported as well. There may be bad pilots or even an overwhelmed controller, but unnecessary clutter on frequency will never help the situation.
How do you know they haven’t looked at the situation on the map?
I agree it’s difficult to alert tower to a situation with the limited set of radio phrases available to you as a pilot. But spacing in tower airspace is (in general) the pilot’s responsibility, and if it’s the aircraft behind who is too close and ends up going around that’s surely their problem not yours? So I’m not sure that this is the right response in your first example.
I guess if the plane following is too close and it’s you who gets sent round, that would be unfair on the face of it and if it happens you should follow up with the controller to find out why they made that call (there may be other reasons you’re not aware of).
I can’t quite work out what you mean by this example - if traffic is lingering on the runway, you’re clearly not going to land on it so you should continue the approach to your decision height on the assumption that it will have cleared by then, and choose to go around or continue at that point.
The one time I do think it’s appropriate to give a position report is if tower has clearly forgotten to give landing clearance and you want to make sure they have remembered before it’s too late. In this case the “Avoid unnecessary reports” response would be inappropriate because it continues “you’re already cleared to land”, which is clearly not the case in this scenario. Personally I leave it until final for this though, because there might be a really good reason not to have been cleared until then.
The beginnings of working together on something are understanding and emphathising with the other person’s point of view; only then can you both reach a collaborative arrangement. It doesn’t sounds as though you really understand the situation yet, so maybe it’s a good time to go back and discuss it further with them.
I disagree. I see many pilots, both when flying and controlling, announce Go arounds for various reasons. I myself had to go around yesterday at MMMX because I floated too long and had a long landing.
If Traffic is too close behind you, you shouldn’t worry about them. The controller will notice and act accordingly. It is not the controller’s responsibility or job to fly the aircraft for the pilot, and while we do our best to search for potential conflicts and de-escalate them before they occur, there are times where we do miss things, and a plane has to go around.
I agree here. There are times where I have forgotten to clear an aircraft because I was dealing with conflicts on the ground, or busy sequencing inbound aircraft. In this case, I would love a position report, but I would request it be sent no later than a 6-mile final. That way, the controller has time to look over the situation with the runway (i.e Has the runway been vacated? Is there an aircraft on takeoff/landing roll ahead that needs attention? Has an aircraft aborted its takeoff and is decelerating? etc.)
This is a great idea. Even after the incident is far gone, and you and the controller have talked, if you think of something else, please contact us again. We are always open and will answer your questions to the best of our ability.
Yes. Please, please, please don’t be doing 180kts on a 4-mile final.
As always, please PM the relevant controller about a specific incident, or if you have a general question, please PM any of us. We are always happy to help
I’m a IFATC member, so as my experience, If there’s one aircraft is already got permission to land and he still send report position message, I normally would not send the avoid sending duplicate message. Because I think it may be notice me he is landing or something else, I mean it don’t influence the air traffic running.But if the pilot report his position for many times , I may warning him once, if he still sending duplicate message, I may report him ‘Duplicate message’ or ‘Unable to communicate’.
I totally agree with this, sometimes people make mistakes when controlling airports and even though i’m not apart of IFATC it seems like a huge job. Pilots are also responsible for the safety of their own aircraft, but going around is safer then colliding with about her aircraft!
Talking about conflicts, there are times where you see a conflict but would NOT choose to go around. At an FNF once I had a landing conflict with an aircraft on intersecting runway. I was at a lower altitude, so i did not go around and instead just applied full braking on landing. Incidentally the other aircraft was sent around and was reported for not doing so (or crashed, not sure). Would have definitely alerted the controller if I had the option.
(FYI plane at high altitude go around in this type of conflict to avoid conflict on go around)
Usually, ATC is aware of the situation and waits until they are absolutely certain a go around is needed. By sending a (on final) you just create more noise in what can potentially be a very busy final. Also, sometimes pilots think that the space between two aircraft isn’t enough when it all ends up working. Also with regard to going around, it is ultimately the pilot’s responsibility to initiate the go around. Hope this helps!
One of the more annoying things to deal with is when a pilot reports position unnecessarily. I’ll likely either ignore you or tell you to avoid unnecessary reports. If you’re cleared for the option then it’s fine to report position full stop or if you’re cleared to land but want to do a touch and go, but otherwise it’s just useless noise.