Trolling Server vs Single Server

Hi,

My name is Michal. Some of you may know me as Emirates 411. I’m slowly getting to Grade 4, but that is because I spend many many hours on ATC, as eruveo.

I know there were many updates that “fixed” how servers function and a lot of ideas as to how grades and servers should work, but this post is about a complex solution to the problem.

As a designer and someone who has spent a significant amount of money on IF, I don’t see any major changes happening that would benefit pilots and ATC. I mean 787 and 4 new ATC commands are nice, but is that all you can do in such a long period?

The biggest problem I see is discoverability and poor design. There is no tutorial, that would ensure all pilot know what ATC, left downwind, over speed, or “You’re in an active airspace” means. So you end up with only 4 flight plans out of 109 flights. Everyone knows LAX, the airport of anarchy. Filled with Grade 1 “learners”, or as we should call them trolls for 100% thrusting from a taxiway, the airport is unplayable and barely covered by any ATC.

The description of the Trolling Server is:

This is a training server with open access to ATC for who want to improve their skills. Rules are enforced on this server.

So in my view, only like half of the people want to improve their skills and enjoy pushback, waiting in line, ATC, approach and patterns. You can practice in Solo mode.

Let me ask, how are the rules enforced? I get so frustrated both as a pilot and ATC. The reporting doesn’t work and “Check Help Pages” or “Follow Instructions” is just useless.

The description of the Single Server, that barely anyone uses, because there are no ATC is:

This is a server where rules are strictly enforced. Air Traffic Controllers have the power to ghost users who do not respect the rules. Reserved for serious players only.

So that’s a great idea for advanced players like myself right? Sometimes, mostly not.

Mostly there are only 2 active airports, if any. Usually, the other one doesn’t even allow you to land your new 787. And then you fly for a few minutes and all ATC are gone. So that’s a great experience for a special server that you pay a lot of money for.

Why is the ATC coverage so poor?

Well, we do it for free. So that’s only for a very small amount of people. Plus you get all these players who don’t even know what instructions mean. There is no link to the forum or tutorial.

Maybe you could motivate players to learn to be an ATC. Do stats, achievements, give a free month of subscription for 24 hours of operation, and I guarantee you, IF will be amazingly good with all those operators.

And with this, add a button for players to report ATC. Some Grade 1 players like to take over big airports with minimal knowledge of the commands, and that isn’t good either

With Global Flight coming up in a few years (sarcasm), we surely need more ATC for all those new airports.

Final thought, maybe let the Grade 1 players see other pilots in Traning Server, but they are invisible to other players. So they can practice their crashes without disrupting a busy airport and ruining the game for everyone. Or maybe you need to play in solo mode for a bit and finish a tutorial before you’re allowed on Live.

My point is, with all the money we give to IF, we deserve better.

I urge IF developers and designers to look into something called Operant Conditioning, which is a design principle enforcing behaviour to the desired action and punishing for incorrect behaviour.

Thank you for taking your time to read this and I look forward to the discussion and critique.

I’ll see you all in KSAN, YSCB, KJFK, WSSS or EGLL soon,
Michal

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System is fine the way it is. Developers know what they’re doing.

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You have some good points. Well written.

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If you think IFATC coverage is so poor…sign up and join us. The more ATC we have the more coverage we can have. No need to complain about that. If you’re not willing to do something to change then don’t complain. Join up

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Okay.

So I got around to doing more than just skimming. We already have servers to play around on, servers to learn on, and a server where only “EliteMaster Chief Pilot’s” fly. As far as punitive actions go, we’ve got our fill.

I do agree though that in order to retain good ATC talent, that the dev’s could certainly offer up a running Live+ membership in exchange for 20-24hrs/mo of ATC OPs. Perhaps this can be looked at after Global flight.

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I’ll start from the bottom:

Wrong. This is not a design principle. You say you are chief designer or some crap in your profile which I don’t believe for a second after reading this. Operant conditioning is a learning method, not a design principle.

Next, with the ATC coverage. Yup. You are right. If you don’t want to be atc you don’t have to. Just like you don’t have to fly.

The trolling server… Well you’re partly right. All servers are for playing around and learning. Casual is for doing literally whatever you want. Training/playground is to start familiarization with atc. Expert is where you follow rules or get pushed back to the training server.

As for improvements, yes you have ideas. Formulate them in a way I can read.

Your points about devs not making improvements that you think are more important are completely invalid because you are not part of the dev team. Whether they choose to listen to you or implement any of these ideas is up to them and not you. It’s their business. They own it and can succeed/fail as they please.

Make half decent improvement requests and your idea would be a little more well received.

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@eruveo…MaxSez… Well Sir you started out slamming the mouth that feed us! Not a good approach to use initially disrespecting the FDS Staff! The meat of your theses was synced and covered most of the salient points the community and FDS has been wrestling with for years. Let me suggest that you scrap this thesis and start a new. The wailing and moaning comments you see already on the boards pooh-poohing your ideas is just the start of a downward spiral. Don’t do a Max Mustang and PO to community on your first time out. I can weather the storm. You’ve got a long Hillclimb before you’ll gain any credibility. When you get that IFATC and Expert Flying authority. Return to the Forum with panache’ and lay t on “Them”! JudtSayin!

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I love Infinite Flight. Just trying to give some constructive criticism.
Sorry that offends you, but it’s a good thing for any successful business.

Read Universal Principles of Design by William Lidwell, Kritina Holden and Jill Butler.

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I am really soon. Just very busy with work and assignments. I give IF hours and days of my life on Traning Server ATC for FREE, so don’t say I’m not willing to do something.

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What is this free thing you talk about? IFATC are volunteers. We don’t get paid either.

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@eruveo… pls don’t get into a Cat Fight with the Congenital Bloggers, Trolls and Peanuts. There are no winners and it boring, same people same BS. Trust me it’s time to pack your tent and go Home. Sun Tzu say; “Live to fight another day etc.”, save what’s left of your pride. Trust me, ask Moderator @Carson to close this Topic for now. Regards Max

Design THEORY and PRACTICE are two completely separate things. Mistakes are made and you learn from them. I agree IF is not perfect and I would have done several things differently. Unfortunately hindsight is 20/20.

Sorry if you are trying to be open minded and constructive here. Your first post came across as a bit arrogant and demeaning toward IF devs.

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image

I’m just going to leave this here. There are valid points being made and people need to resist the urge to reply with their best one liner. This forum is not a text message, use your words.

  • Yes, there are updates that need to come out to assist the pilot as well in the area of ATC commands. The latest patch included some quick commands to help ATC manage the heavy flow of traffic. I believe there are plans for more pilot commands to be included but do not quote me on this.
  • ATC has its up and down times. Now that school is in we have seen the busy times shift so it could be that Expert may be slower at a time when you are online. You are always welcome to ask forum members to fly for you and provide you with controlling feedback.
  • There is a question mark icon in the sim that takes you to a help page with the link to the forum as well as topics in the tutorials. I do not see your point on that being an issue.
  • There is no amount of testing that will eliminate all issues in a server. People can always fly perfect for a test and then ram through planes when ATC is not present. There is a process in place for pilots to take the responsibility and report users so it does not get abused. Ghosting by IFATC is highly regulated to provide a fair approach. If a ghosting occurs by accident or if the controller was in the wrong, it will be reversed.
  • We do need more IFATC, especially for global. IFATC are always flying on TS looking for potential candidates as well as providing feedback when asked. Search the forum for the recruiting and scout posts to get started or contact me and I will get you more information. Some people are just not cut out for ATC, you do not just tell people to take off and call it a day. There are many of us who have to take a break because of the attention that it requires. There were some FNF during the summer that were just flat out crazy.
  • Bottom line is that there’s no perfect solution. We have people that fly 787’s for a living and people who have never been in an airplane or know how it works. FDS has done a great job in trying to make the sim detailed enough to provide realism while making it simple enough for the non-pilots.

That’s my $0.02 worth.

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@Chris_S… A yes a little “Decision Theory” just what IF needs. Hell they can’t even fly a pattern on Expert. LOL.

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Hahah.

I need to print that picture out!

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Better means not increasing the requirements, you are just making your loyal customers mad and that’s not good for business. Better in the sense of more complex controls and some things that are possible to be completed in short term

@Carson. I can hear them building the gallows. Stoking the fire’s. Breaking out the tar and feathers. Please close this Topic I really don’t want to witness this kid’s verbal lynching anymore. I’m going to Bed. Nite All! Max

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Agreed. @eruveo keep up the good work. There may be some issues but I believe together and by working we can resolve it. Have a blessed night

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Didn’t you just change your opinion?

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Hello Ar and Joe…anyways no. I simply stated above that if he wanted to fix ATC issues he should join us instead of complaining about it. He has some decent ideas. We just need to work instead of talk

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