The Expert Server is lacking expertise - let's fix that

Disclaimer: this topic is not meant to shame anyone or to start an argument. It’s sole purpose is to raise some awareness and promote change

Today, I was reading @Jose_Oscana’s Please Follow Arrival Chart Speed Restrictions, and I found the following claims:

These two claims were both made in relation to the idea that the expert server doesn’t feel like it deserves to be called “expert” anymore. As a member of the IFATC organization, Jose was trying to request that pilots would simply follow airspeeds on arrival charts - which, might I add, would make it easier for people like him to enhance us pilots’ experience on the ES. As a pilot on the ES, I’m here today to request that all pilots will cooperate with both IFATC and realism standards to make everybody’s experience more enjoyable.

While I entirely agree with Jose requesting that people try to maintain the realism on the Expert server, I can also acknowledge that everybody following every rule all the time is just simply not going to happen. At the end of the day, just being Grade 3 doesn’t mean that much - it just means that you have a high status on the game and have been active for a while. And without Expert server pilots genuinely knowing what they’re doing, it just becomes another Training server, albeit one that you have to be Grade 3 for. Having said that, I have (off the top of my head) two different ways to acheive this realism that many ES pilots and ATC are actively striving to acheive (you can also find links to these exact/related features at the bottom of this topic).

First idea

The first one is simply just being incredibly strict with the rules for Grade 3. Make it so every ES pilot has to go through some sort of “training” (kind of like what the IFATC members have to do) - maybe a bunch of tutorials, a manual, or something. Ameteur pilots won’t exist on the expert server - no more incredibly fast taxiing, bad pilots, or one of my smallest, yet biggest pet peeves, aircraft of the wrong airline at the wrong terminal. Make even the slightest infraction a Level 1 violation (but maybe increase the amount of Level 1s you can get, as it will be very easy to get one if you’re not careful). I realize that this one might be a bit of a stretch to pull off, but I feel like it could be acheived.

Second idea

The second idea that I had was to make some selected pilots (of any grade permitted on the ES) that are somewhat frequent fliers, and put them through a training system to basically be “police officers”, if you will - like what @Nanosecond100 said in his own topic a while back on this matter. After having put these select pilots through training, they can send warnings of a certain level to other aircraft not following procedures (ex: taxiing with landing/beacon lights after a certain point = level 1 warning, not maintaining proper separation with aircraft on the ground/in the absence of ATC = level 2, etc.). If there can be a system for IFATC staff to be able to be trusted enough to have the power to report players for not maintaining the realism, then I strongly believe that a similar power could be granted to these pilots, too.

Now, I know that, at the end of the day, IF_California has a point - its just a mobile flight sim - nowhere near the level of realism that you’d want to see from, for example, VATSIM on MSFS2020. But, at the same time, there is some validity to just wanted the most realistic flight experience, and it can be frustrating at times when it seems like you cannot escape the blatantly unrealistic pilots of IF. There are a ton of us that DO actually follow the rules - if you are one of those pilots, then I am grateful to you. I get that nobody is perfect, but I think that we, as a community of expert server pilots, would sincerely appreciate it if each and every pilot adhered to the rules. So please, for the time being, even if you maybe think that everything you do is totally fine, please check back up on the user guide. If everybody genuinely tried to, we could finally see some peace and realism restored to the ES.

Well, I know that’s a lot to unpack, but I’m glad that you read this topic. Before you go, though, I emplore you to consider looking into the following links to help out this issue. It would make a huge difference! Thanks, and have a great day!

Waxy

Which idea are you more likely to support?
  • Idea 1
  • Idea 2
  • I like them both
  • I don’t care how it’s done, I just want realism on the ES!!
0 voters

GUIDES FOR PILOTS
Getting Started Guide for New Pilots
Flying Guide (all pilots should review this!)

FEATURES TO VOTE FOR
Realistic Server Suggestion by @IrishAviatorYT
New Requirement for Expert Server by @Riskie
Advanced Tutorial Required for Expert Server Use by @USA_ATC
Additional SOP Information in Airport Info Tab by @Rock77

17 Likes

From my eyes, we need a complete server overhaul. First of all, the total lack of violations on casual gives pilots a bad start. They need to be exposed to basic flight rules from the very start. I also think the ability for non IFATC controllers to control (on Training) should be moved down on Casual.

From there, to fly or control on Training, one would need to pass a written test. Similar to IFATC entry. In fact, I think the same test for IFATC entry could be used for this.

For expert, both pilots and controllers would need to pass a practical test. The IFATC process can stay as is, I think right now it’s a solid filter. Pilots would also need to pass a practical, with evidence of proper communication with ATC as well.

11 Likes

I think there should be somewhere where pilots can fly without any restrictions, just to mess around with eachother (stunts and exploiting weird glitches, etc).

12 Likes

This is highly unrealistic and a major barrier to entry, which from the perspective of Infinite Flight as a buisness is really bad. This reduction in the pool of potential expert server members would reduce the immersive experience of flying to busy airports, etc.

I 100% agree. There are entire organizations for stunt flying, etc. that would be forced out of existence.

While I agree that there are definitely problems with behavior on the expert server, these are not acceptable solutions. That said, I think “realism police” pilots are a good suggestion, but I could also see a system like this being abused so there’d be a lot to work out.

1 Like

So you’re content with the amount of pilots on expert right now? That’s like telling me that every pilot on here is a professional.

For all, do you really believe that expert pilots in this game outnumber amateurs 4:1? Or the other way around.
  • There are way, way more professionals than amateurs.
  • Expert pilots are a rarity compared to the amount of amateurs.
  • Somewhere in between.
0 voters

Sure, I’d be open to a non-restrictive server. But giving new pilots this lack of restriction as their only option when starting the game just lets them internalize this lack of accountability.

1 Like

I’m just saying that there are decent pilots who might be turned away by a testing process for what many perceive is a game. Those who go through training and testing for IFATC are going above and beyond for something that they are especially interested in. That is too much to ask for the casual Infinite Flight player.

This is a real issue though. The training server is already a 💩 show anyway, so maybe opening it up to new pilots would help. Opening up the training server to new pilots might even help with the training server if pilots aren’t so accustomed to going 500 kts to whatever runway they want. It does seem like a bit of a stretch though. We don’t really have data on the mindsets of bad expert server pilots, so I can’t really agree or disagree on this one.

In response to your poll, when you go to an airport on the expert server do you really see more people disobeying ATC instructions or trying to cut someone off, etc., than those not? I definitely do not.

Are the majority of people you see on the expert server nuisances?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
1 Like

This is what I’m trying to combat. Right now, you won’t believe the amount of pure shame that comes by not flying Expert. I fly Training regularly, some days more than Expert, and it is empty. People simply will not settle for anything but Expert. This stigma has to be fought. There should be no shame not flying expert.

Right now, there are 5 times more expert pilots than training and casual combined. If you truly believe, that 85% of all IF players should be able to play in the supreme, highest server dedicated for realism, then so be it, however, I believe that is not the case.

1 Like

Yes, because it is just grinding landings and flight time.

1 Like

I used to fly realistic routes and overall try to be as realistic as possible bc I someday want to become a pilot. I think That the Expert server should be a little bit more realistic.

1 Like

So, you agree. If it stays that way, it will always be grindable. I hope we can both understand that automated entry into Expert will result in unprofessionalism.

1 Like

I think there should be kind of like a brief training course when its your first time n the expert server.

Also who do you consider to be worthy of the expert server? Do you can expect everyone to be pulling up approach charts on their devices and knowing when to use aircraft lights and everything, or just people to fill the skies without causing problems for other people?

I don’t really think that a lot of ppl on the ES are amateurs. I used to not know how to do an ILS approach and got a violation bc of it but I knew how to use ATC and fly the plane.

1 Like

No. And don’t tell me what I agree with. A practical test will turn away people who would otherwise be acceptable pilots on the expert server, and would be a massive burden on Infinite Flight to have to quality pilots. I agree that flight time requirements do not help very much, but a practical test is too much.

It’s not about being worthy. The name expert says it all. This is a polarized topic. If you want to have more traffic on expert, then by definition you are willing to tolerate unprofessionalism. If someone wants to put their mind to it, it’s not that hard to pass a basic (supervised) process to get into Expert.

3 Likes

Define “unprofessionalism” in the context of Infinite Flight.

Also, some methods of increasing professionalism come at a much higher cost of traffic for the increase in professionalism they bring. For example, very strict enforcement of expert server rules may turn a few people away, but most people who simply listen to IFATC will continue playing.

With this game? Easy. The ability for someone to get expert in a week, by grinding landings and flying blindly in the middle of the ocean, and then getting access to enter busy airspaces with trained ATC, with pilots who want to fly in a server with members who are supposed to share their desire for realism.

1 Like

I define unprofessional as not following ATC instructions or taxing into other aircraft but I am ok with ppl who use the lights incorrectly or ppl who fly non realistic routes

2 Likes

Not at all what I asked. All you did was describe the current state of Infinite Flight’s server access system.

1 Like

Maybe IF should add a new server called the Realistic flight server and all the pilots who want to fly professionally can fly in that server

2 Likes