Taxi to runway vs Taxi to holding point.

Hey I have not seen anyone address this topic yet, so I thought I’d do it, as it has been bugging me for some time now. I have seen a lot of confusion over the instruction “taxi to runway”. Especially people who seem to be new to IG on the training server often taxi directly onto the runway after that instruction, which is not entirely wrong in my opinion, as the instruction should be: “taxi to holding point, runway…”
So I think it would be great if this would be changed on the next update regarding ATC procedures.

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You should make a #features request about it, don’t forget to check if that topic already exists before creating it.

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The chances of this being applied to the game are so astronomical, it’s not even worth discussing. You have to understand that the hold short line is there to make sure Aircraft have a safe distance from the runway so that they don’t interfere with arriving aircraft.

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I understand that! Btw it’s called holding point. But the clearance limit of the instruction taxi to runway… ends ON the runway, not at the holding point. So the instruction has to be “taxi to holding point, runway…”

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You should always hold short of the hold short line until instructed otherwise. That’s how it’s done IRL. “Taxi to holding point” is only an addition but isn’t required.

BTW: Only because it’s done in Germany, doesn’t mean it’s done everywhere. I know what you mean, as I’m from Germany as well ;)

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“Taxi to runway 24L, monitor Tower when holding short”

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I recommend reading through this:

It specifically states “Never cross a runway without a specific instruction to so.”

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And no: That’s not correct. The clearence limit ends at each holding point! Look at Frankfurt: You got Taxiway U and T with holding points T2, T4, T6, U2, U4, U6, U8 for a good reason. With planes landing on 25L or in case of an emergency on 25C, you don’t want planes to taxi behind them. That’s why you need a specific clearence from Tower to cross those HP lines.

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Taxi to runway X via taxiway X is what I believe he is referring to. In that case I am very much for this feature. However, I believe it has already been requested.

Holding short is just implied when asked to taxi to the specified runway. A pilot with active ATC should never just enter an active runway without clearance. Pilots should always hold short of the hold short line, then contact tower for takeoff. No need for the hold short command. Just bogs up the commands :)

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Same is with your flight plan clearence. Controller to you: “Cleared dest. EDDF via SID XY, initial climb FL70 or 7000ft, squawk xy”. Your clearence limit in Frankfurt is e.g. KERAX. So: If ATC does not give you further clearence, you are required to enter a hold over KERAX as published in the charts.

There is a hold short line, you should not cross a hold short line without permission. I understand there could be some communication issues depending on your home country language and how you interpret English - but common sense applies here - you cannot enter a runway without requesting a rwy crossing or takeoff. Furthermore, the taxi to runway command is given by a ground frequency, not tower. So there are many cues that makes one understand it’s not okay to enter a runway without permission.

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The people who do that, however, could be new to IF (like you said) or are learning how to use ATC. This might be a problem if it happened on Expert, but you stated that it’s only on Training, in which the pilots will learn by example from others who actually know what it means.

Its not just optional, it’s mandatory. The ICAO applied that radio procedure as there have been a lot of runway incursions in the past because of that. (Read it in the Manual of Radiotelephony).
And that’s not only for Germany but for every ICAO member state.

The instruction is taxi to the runway not onto the runway. We use FAA regs and phraseology in IF which is how it’s done. Just because the TS pilots are getting it wrong then it’s your job as ATC to tell them such. It’s not an incorrect phrase to say taxi to the runway.

“Taxi to runway xy” does not permit a pilot to enter a runway. In doubt, you must always hold short. That’s not just for IF, that’s how it’s done IRL.

And that’s what you’re talking about (I think?). You are saying, that’s not clear if the command gives you permission to line up. As I said above: In doubt, always hold short.

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