So, I Hear You Don’t Like Holds...

Well, might I suggest a little preparation?

I am using this one because it’s rather clear, but imagine that this is someone coming into the airspace on FNF and expecting to simply be slotted into the line. Exactly how is that supposed to happen?


Add in 5 others doing exactly the same, and you get InfiniteHold instead of InfiniteFlight, but do the math. That distance requires a V/S of almost -7700 FPM. That’s a big fat “nope” on going straight to intercept. I am unsure how the connection is never made between the inability to properly plan and the negation of a straight-forward path to intercept, but it’s as obvious as it can possibly be that situations like these aren’t going to make for an expeditious approach.

Which, is fine. Under one condition: You realize that you put yourself in that situation.

If you’re told to hold and descend to 8k, do not call in for vectors again at 15k wondering what’s going on.

Do not open a thread saying you were forgotten.

Do not continuously check in.

You aren’t forgotten. You just did not provide yourself with the opportunity to join the approach line and now you will have to wait for a space to open up, and, no, you do not have priority over those that fly rationally.

The image was just a clear illustration and but a single example. Put 100 other planes in the airspace like yesterday and you can imagine how much more difficult.

But one thing needs to be perfectly clear:

The hold is your vector. Asking again for vectors is spam, plain-and-simple. Re-requesting doesn’t lower your altitude or open up a gap. It just clutters the airwaves for a situation that you have created for yourself. So fly your hold and when there’s an opportunity you’ll be slotted in. Alternatively, actually plan a reasonable flight.

Note: there are a million and a half “when do I descend” threads out there. Do not turn this into another one.

This isn’t about specifics. It’s about when it gets to be simple, and it’s clear you’re way too high, just dealing with the consequences of that decision to delay descending indefinitely. If you don’t like holds, it’s entirely up to you.


So to sum it up what you are saying is don’t make threads saying that you were forgotten because you were put into a holding pattern

Right now the winds within the TFR are crazy. That could cause an affect towards descent. (not a very big one though)

But anyways, well-explained, @Tim_B!

Yeah this is a useful tutorial to people who don’t know what holding patterns are, or just don’t understand that they have been put into one.

Yeah…it’s not a one-day issue. It’s every time I’m open. Anyway, he was traveling westward, so with that massive headwind, he had to be going maximum possible airspeed.

Really? Yikes. I normally appreciate a controller that puts me into a hold when I started my descent too late.

Ok more information. I like controlling approach and that’s about all I do so good to know

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