SIDs and STARs

Navigraph is providing the service to you. You have the subscription, not the sim. I believe (I may be wrong) but if IF wanted to use it, they would need a subscription for every user. They may be able to provide it in some bulk pricing but my guess is that it would not be cheap.

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Probably IF can provide an older version of Navigraph and whoever has the subscription can get the lates navigation fixes loaded from their phone or tablet.

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@koukkey

Yes there’s many different sources for great charts. Debatable weather some of us would be able to do something like you mentioned , keeping in mind pricing.

Without trying to self advertise to much here , I believe the next update of VirtualHub will have some very nice new chart additions for MANY airports. I think we will be able to match the quality and maybe the quantity of other chart sources.

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Hi,

I see, you’re wetting my appetite. But the question is whether there will be a way to load that onto IF, as opposed to inputting that manually.

I would certainly encourage you and others to have a look at it. It’s clearly a gap in the IF product line (I’m including 3rd party software here, of course!), and who knows, maybe if/once ATC on IF gets more complex, there will be a need to fly SIDs/STARs.

Thanks

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You can copy the FPL in VirtualHub and paste it in IF :)

Most 3rd-Party programs that generate flight plans offer a way to copy and paste the flight plan into the sim.

And, in the meantime whilst you wait for these features to come to apps, you can make your own flight plans with your own SID/STAR. I detailed how to do that here

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Thanks to both of you. Just to clarify - I do use the various apps you refer to to copy/paste a flight plan. I was merely referring to the SID/STAR bit, which doesn’t always seem to be available (as far as I know, SimBrief sometime loads the SID)

Cheers

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Chris I don’t believe that’s entirely true… IF wouldn’t have to pay for EVERY user.
I currently use the simbrief product and charts cloud-for which navigraph Charges me about $10 USD/month. If I had a PC sim, I would be free to download the file thru my subscription to install and thus update all my waypoints in said sim.

As far as the devs go, they may have options where this is concerned-it MAY be a one time or monthly or NOT AT ALL as the onus would be on us as the users of IF to subscribe to navigraph cycles.
I’m guessing a one time fee makes more sense here a licensing fee or “compatibility fee” for Infinite Flight if you will. For instance if the devs go to Navigraph and say “hey navigraph we have this mobile sim and the AIRAC cycle is all user generated, is your data able to be made compatible with this XXX way of how we can implement it in Infinite Flight?

Many times-Add-on aircraft come with a specific airac cycle-usually the one that’s current when the add-on is released. Users may then subscribe to update-this is where I’m getting the “one time” fee idea.

The logistics would be as follows:
-Navigraph provides airac (waypoint/procedure) updates** for PC sims as well as simbrief etc.
User downloads X file to their PC and installs it-resulting in the updated waypoints and procedures each month.

-IF dev team goes to Navigraph and asks how they can make airac data compatible for Infinite Flight users that wish to subscribe and ONLY those users

-Navigraph either says they can make the data compatible (perhaps via in-app purchase??)

-Dev team and Navigraph discuss compatibility and implementation concerns and negotiate “licensing” pricing and/or percentages from in-app or other mode of subscription to the Navigraph data.

FAST FORWARD
-IF users then have the ability to upgrade their subscription to “IF Pro NOW WITH Navigraph

-IF users who subscribe can now fly via SID/STAR and ILS without having to have a flight plan like mine from last night (KLAS JAKER ROPPR RODDD BOACH WHIGG NATEE 3513N/11554W 3453N/11620W 3441N/11634W 3430N/11645W 3420N/11657W 3416N/11702W 3410N/11706W 3359N/11711W 3356N/11716W 3349N/11726W 3345N/11737W 3344N/11740W 3341N/11751W MIDDS RSNAL GUNEY R0713 KLGB)

I’m sure this is a pipe dream but I’d bet it’s possible to do

**For example the ANJLL4 added two waypoints in a recent update-people who have navigraph have the updated procedure-but in IF, we only have the ANJLL3 (I personally submitted the ANJLL3 waypoints and many others to Adrien who spun them up on GitHub to get them into IF-but it’s now already out of date 🤦‍♂️)

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Diamond, you should do one with an RNAV STAR like the ROBUC3 into KBOS that has a descend via with a ton of altitude and speed restrictions.

I think before this we need better airports. Hangars buildings gates. Runway signs etc

Simbrief always misses parts of the SID and sometimes the STAR for some strange reason and in addition it seems to ignore altitude crossing restrictions on the STAR. It had my TOD from FL300 last night 8 miles away from a waypoint I needed to cross at 14000’ 🤣

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I think they’re waiting on better devices before they can do the eye candy stuff you’re talking about. This is a data addition not 3D objects we’re talking about.

@Dragos when you say charts-do you mean IFR charts or the taxi charts that are already in VH?

Well, the tutorial mainly explains how to insert them, not necessarily how to read them. I did link a tutorial within the tutorial that explains that.

No need to wait other sims have them

Well by your logic there’s DEFINITELY no need to wait for AIRAC and updated SID/STAR/ILS data because other sims have them too!

At the moment you seem to have two options:

  1. get those other sims for now. I could do the same for
    Navdata but I’m having a creative discussion with folks about it here. As for the 3D stuff-Laura has already said as much about weather and buildings-they’re working on it and it’s a challenge. Do you want IF to crash every time you start a flight? The devs have proved quite able to roll out new things for us when they’re technically able and ready to STABLY roll it out to the list of supported devices.

  2. If you don’t want to vote on this topic or discuss it feel free to start a thread each (as per feature rules) for buildings signs and whatever else your heart desires. In the meantime, again, this is a navdata/datafile addition-not the addition of complex 3D objects that would likely require a lot more work and a lot more resources to run.

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@FBWFTW

IFR charts

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Do we know where the navaids currently come from in IF? I have noticed IF doing periodic updates to their navaids but a lot of fixes are absent.

Especially at KATL the fixes are all screwed up.

At least if the navaids in IF are upto date then flying those SIDS and STARs is possible as most of the times the fixes of the SID or STAR are missing.

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This is a nice thought, but it’s really hard to implement, and not as simple as you say.

You need to remember that SID/STAR procedures are just a series of waypoints. In order to get these waypoints to correctly make up the SID/STAR, you would need the latest published AIRAC cycle. This is VERY expensive.

Secondly, would you make it mandatory to use, or as an optional feature to add on? Only P-RNAV1 capable planes with an FMC and hopefully RNP can fly SID/STARs. Would you make people not wanting to pay for that capability do so? The SID/STAR procedures only work if the majority of the people use them. It is basically to reduce controller workload.

And also, if you want SID/STARs, you would also need a valid route with these procedures. And how would you go about the fact that the SID and STAR in Europe and the “ICAO world” is assigned to you by the controller?

well I’ll surely empty a vote for this feature. nice request but it would be unproductive unless all the fixes and vor are included. we still have many regions with no fixes at all.

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