should violations and ghosting also apply to ATC?


#1

does it exist in reality? do pilots in reality get ghosted by ATC for not following ATC instructions?!

i find it weird cause in reality the ATC doesn’t have authority over the pilot nor the pilot have authority over ATC however the pilot can have the last word in some scenarios when they feel like they can’t trust that ATC or they can’t understand or they feel they are getting wrong instructions since the pilot is the one flying the plane and to unsure the safety for his passengers sometimes the pilot takes the authority over the ATC, the ATC is also a human and can’t be perfect, but when the pilot doesn’t follow ATC instructions or an argument happens between an ATC and a pilot the ATC can’t punish the pilot and the pilot can’t punish the ATC it’s another authority that have the responsibility to investigate the case and see which side was wrong,.

but in this game ATC is given the ability to punish a pilot?! which is amazing,. how come no investigation takes place? and why ATC in this game have such a authority?! why the pilot can’t do the same thing when ATC makes mistakes?!

on the other hand i love the fact that ATC is actually given proper credit in this game cause in reality they don’t really get that much credit and pilots take most of the credit cause they are flying the plane carrying the passengers and doing the takeoffs and landings etc,… but yeah its nice to see ATC getting credit,.

but again with the kind of authority ATC have in this game violations and punishment like ‘ghosting’ should also apply to ATC, i mean if a pilot makes a mistake and receives a violation nobody will say oh humans make mistakes lets remove the violation and forgive him! no the violation stays regardless of how the mistake happened, and then there’s the ‘ghosting’ punishment however non of that applies to ATC so when ATC makes a mistake no violations take place let alone ‘ghosting’

now don’t get me wrong i am not biased against ATC cause i do try to work as ATC sometimes on the training server but knowing the fact that violations and ghosting doesn’t apply to ATC and ATC is given more authority over pilots anyone can take that for privilege and reputation, now i am grade 3 with just one violation and i can take the ATC training to become IFATC so i can play the game without the fear of getting violations or ‘ghosting’ since i am the IFATC i have the authority and i won’t get violations cause i ain’t a pilot! see?! i am not saying i am going to do that i am just saying anyone can do it,

i think there should be an official team in this community that can carry investigations, for example if a pilot doesn’t follow instructions on the expert server it’s shouldn’t be up to ATC to punish the pilot nor the other way around, instead ATC should just report the pilot just like in reality and the investigating team makes the decision, therefore there wouldn’t be a new topic every time about an ATC calling out a pilot or a pilot calling out an ATC, it’s just turns into a chaos since some pilots feel it’s unfair on the other hand the ATC think their instructions must be followed without a chance for doubts because they have the ultimate authority which is wrong since the pilot can also have the authority over the ATC it’s basically situationally, if the pilot felt like they don’t wanna continue with the approach and announces missed approach it’s up to the pilot he’s flying the plane, if the pilot wanted to land on the river again he’s the pilot he’s flying the plane so if ATC feel the pilot is doing something wrong they should make a report about that pilot so a proper investigation will take place, or the other way around,. giving one side the authority to punish the other is like mob justice.

moderators, veterans, or any experienced pilots/ATCs should form an investigation team like ‘NTSB’ don’t you guys think it’s will be awesome?!

with that being said, i now have the access to the expert server but i don’t want to go there to fly a plane cause the fear of getting ghosted by an ATC over trivial misunderstandings,.


#2

I am not IFATC but I would assume that there is some sort if investagation if a pilot brings it up with IFATC. If a simple message doesn’t work with a controller you could contact a mod about this situation.

They’re trying keep air flow at an airport moving. When a pilot doesn’t obey what do you do? In the real world if this happens you get violated big time unless there’s an emergency.

As I said previously, if you believe controllers did something wrong contact a mod.


#3

#4

hummmmmmmmm,use TS for tranining,and expert for flying expertly!


#5

what about ghosting tho? as you stated i should contact a mod if i believe a controller did something wrong, shouldn’t the controller also contact a mod if they believe a pilot did something wrong? i mean can ATC ghost a pilot in reality?! i am pretty sure the pilots gets pushed by another department right?! after the controller makes a report,.

but even in the training server pilots get speed violations although it’s a ‘training server’ however ATC who makes many mistakes doesn’t get violations with the excuse that they are just training even the ATC was actually trolling!


#6

Don’t be afraid to enter the expert server. Jump in, discover what is actually happening, mostly pay attention and have fun. Perhaps after some time you’ll realize why the system is the way it is.


#7

what do you mean i don’t understand lol


#8

They can, but IFATC trust their guys to make the correct decisions.

They can write them up and get the Government involved the famous “Let me know when you’re ready to copy a number down” comes into play.
There’s a story I’ve been told by a buddy who was a controller. He was working one night and an airplane started taxiing with out his clearance, she held short of the runway got permission to depart and took off… Issue is she got permission to taxi and takeoff from another tower. When the tower found out the Federal Government got involved her Designated Pilot Exterminator Certificate and Pilot certificates were revoked.

Training Server is dedicated for training (hint the name ‘Training’), controllers there do not have the power to ghost pilots.


#9

maybe after 1500 flight hours, i don’t wanna gamble just yet lol


#10

We don’t ghost without any purpose,we try our best to avoid ghosting but sometimes pilots do blunder at crowded airports,and enforces us to ghost!!!


#11

Being part of IFATC doesn’t give you the ability of not getting violations, we follow the same rules as everyone one else, except we have permission to control on the expert server and we follow a set of rules before we ghost anybody.


#12

We continuously monitor and provide feedback to ATC’s. If an ATC’s performance is not up to the high standards that have been set they can and will be demoted, and may ultimately be removed from IFATC.

We don’t allow pilots to “report” ATC’s, as that would allow rogue pilots to wreak havoc on the system.


#13

You’ll be fine. I think you might have fabricated a monster. Now go up and shake hands with it an find out how unscary it really is. Best of luck.


#14

there’s many non experts on the expert server tho!


#15

The controllers are trained to report pilots that behave in a manner that mostly impacts the experience of other pilots. It may sound like they are not following their commands but their action probably cut off another pilot, cut in line, or interfered in some other way.

The pilot has the right to talk to the controller/moderator about the report. We do all of this communication through PMs and we do reverse a decent number of contested reports as long as there is evidence to do so.

IFATC management takes ghosting seriously and if we find that a controller is abusing that power they may be demoted and/or removed from IFATC. Sometimes it will bring to light a training opportunity to refresh the controllers on proper procedures.

They are human too and mistakes happen. If you have a complaint with a controller please bring it to the attention of the moderating team and we will investigate.

I hope that answered your questions. Please PM me if you have any additional questions.


#17

I don’t use expert because i don’t want to get ghosted mistakenly as we see from complaints every day.

I believe, if an ATC is going to cause an air crash; i handle it and turn my aircraft to safe position or ascent/descent to safe altitude.

I would do that even in ES but i can suppose ATC would ghost me. It is disgusting. I can forecast it because as i said at the beginning; there are countless topics about ghosting complaints.

I do not know what can we do between this situations.


#18

You haven’t ever been ghosted or been on the Expert server before, so you might be a little miss understood about what it is like.

We can not and do not ghost for the smallest miss understanding, unrealistic procedure, or incorrect announcement. We do not ghost unless the pilot is doing something that is blatantly wrong that effects the experience of other pilots. Things like taxiing though other aircraft, taking off or landing without permission, and other things that are very wrong and clearly don’t belong on the expert server. Once you start flying on expert, wouldn’t you like everyone to be ATC following instructions, not running into you, and actually have a clue what they are doing unlike TS1 and Casual? This is how we deal with that and make the Expert server a more “expert environment”. Without ghosting, we have no authority, which means pilots have no reason to be professional, and it might as well be another Training server.

Also, it’s not like we can just ghost for whatever without any evidence or further conversation. Unless someone clearly trolling, we are required to warn the pilot several times with a “please follow instructions, or you will be ghosted”. I usually try to follow that message with a repeat instruction so he knows what I want him to do. If he repeatedly ignores me and continuing to do the wrong thing, then I take a series of screenshots (or some people actually record the whole session) showing what the pilot did wrong, and then ghost him. The pilot is then free to contact me at any time and I will have screenshot evidence and a good explanation of exactly what he did wrong. If there is any further question, he can contact a moderator and a futher “investigation” will be done.

My point is, this isn’t a free for all, punish anyone you don’t like, kinda thing. Although some people don’t realize it, IFATC only ghost for clear reasons and are required to have evidence for it. We are carefully watched, and if we abuse our power or do something majorly wrong, we are investigated. Leading to our own suspension or complete removal from the IFATC.


#19

They do not go around actively looking for people to ghost. If you follow their instructions and don’t interfere with other planes you will be fine. Even if you mess up they will give you warnings. It is not as bad as people make it out to seem. There are some scenarios that are worthy of instant ghostings without warning.

Like most things people will post a message to complain about but not compliment service. Give it a try, you might light it on ES. Just remember to not take off from your gate, ask for permission to cross runways and take off, and do some planning. Look around on the ground before pushing back or taxing down a ramp where there is another plane coming the other direction at you.

The biggest ghosting day is FNF. You get tons of aircraft all coming into the same airport with different flight plans on auto pilot. They get routed into a line and some get impatient and try to cut in line. Some will spawn at an airport 10 miles away and expect to cut in front of a line of 20 planes to land before them.


#20

If you get ghosted mistakenly, you can easily get it reverted by a mod. There is nothing to worry about. IFATCs pass several tests before getting accepted so the chance of you being ghosted mistakenly is extremely low. Ive have more than 1000 hours on the expert server and i ve never been ghosted


#21

Once I got reported for going on the “wrong runway” but I was on the right on…