Shocking behavior on the Expert Server

[Jw2004]

I’ve been saying for ages now that two aspects have to be changed to improve the quality of the expert server.

1. “Identifier” pilots have to go. You often see their violation count through the roof, and seem to only be playing to rack those Vios up and to mess with other’s experience. Contacting them is impossible as they don’t have any community accounts linked, leaving no possibility to submit feedback, or explain why they received a violation. I’ve been getting responses the first few times I suggested this saying that there are many (mostly young children) whose parents don’t allow them to create an account. I honestly don’t find the expert server a place for young(er) children as it’s rather complicated and stressful from time to time (not to forget the numerous researches that have shown that younger children do not have a developed enough brain to comprehend complication, danger and stress, hence why they’re so restricted with money and politics). A community account has to become a must, period.

2. Secondly, the permitted violation ratio has to be changed. With the current grade table, it is way too easy to get back to grade 3 and gain back that access to the expert server. The current vio ratio for G3 is 0.5, and if I’m correct, one needs only 2 landings to get back up. I’d see the quality of flying in the ES increasing were the ratio decreased to 0.2 or even 0.1 (even lower would perhaps be overkill)
   Also, a maximum of 5 level 2 or 3 violations in a whole year is too lenient. This has to be decreased to a maximum of 2/3. Upping the min. landing count isn’t going to work, as these are relatively easy to farm, just doing touch and goes instead of gaining them by flying.

Just my two cents, I do hope something will be done, as the standard of the expert server has absolutely been ravaged.

[Swiss27]

I support this one! I think, In real life, ATC asks pilots to use specific taxiway.

[Magician]

@Yash_Prabhu

you can put robots who will handle the atc jo

We have an IFATC team who handle the Air Traffic Control for Infinite Flight

@Yash_Prabhu

normally have tension because of they don’t they will lose job.

This is incorrect. It is cause of safety of the passengers

@Yash_Prabhu

Taxing through other planes - this happens in expert server too but I recommend ATC to report the aircraft that is taxing to other aircraft.

All get a level 2 violation for taxing through someone.

@Yash_Prabhu

Not stable approach. In expert server when there’s no ATC players randomly come from anywhere and land anywhere on the runway.

Its pilots responsibility to read the manual and fly responsibly.

@Yash_Prabhu

but ATC should tell which taxiway to use

This feature will be out in the future updates

@Yash_Prabhu

IF developers can make a new server or make the expert server adding the new rules

Rules are already enforced in Expert Server

@Yash_Prabhu

begginers who don’t know the expert server

Thats why there is a training server for pilots to practice and be ready for the Expert Server

@Yash_Prabhu

150 hours for grade 3

For a person who barely flies 2 hours a day, it will take him 75 days to reach the Expert Server.

[Delta_836]

I just had a person come flying in front of me on a short final at LHR couldnt belive it. then they took the taxiway at 57kt! lol

[Magician]

@OregonAviaton

A “report” feature would prompt the reporting user to submit a form this would ask information regarding the incident, the replay and what happened in their own words.

This was there a few years back and was misused thus it is removed

@OregonAviaton

bot could be helpful

Automation is always not the best. Human touch is required for some instances as Artificial Intelligence can misfire sometimes.

[KaiM]

Some good points here. I’ll try and respond to the main ones.

@OregonAviaton

All ES Pilots MUST have a IFC community account or equal in order for users to communicate with the individual and provide constructive feedback. Most individuals learn from others therefore this is essential.

We’ve considered this internally and there are cons as well as pros. Nevertheless I think it could potentially be effective and I’ll bring it up again. For the sake of transparency, the main downsides for us is forcing people to have a forum account (ie us collecting their personal information) could be considered anti-consumer and collecting more data than we need, and also the fact that it would make the expert server have less traffic due to some people not wanting to sign up here.

@OregonAviaton

A “report” feature would prompt the reporting user to submit a form this would ask information regarding the incident, the replay and what happened in their own words. I understand this could create troll reporting so a bot could be helpful to “scan” for spam.

A good idea, but we’ve had this in the past and we’ve just had too many spam reports. A “bot” as you’ve described to handle this is non-trivial. There’s no magic spam checker that we can implement easily, we could potentially look for indicators of spam, but it’s unlikely that we would reject a report solely based on that due to the risk of false positives. The AI buzzword gets thrown around a bit here but that’s about a million times easier said than done.

@Yash_Prabhu

Instead of expert server you make another one… There it’s very strict and ATC should be available in all airports. I know it’s difficult but you can put robots who will handle the atc job.

Sorry, but there’s just no way we’ll be doing this. Another server doesn’t make logical sense - the “expert expert” server? Not to mention that, again, bot ATC would be like a multi-year project that still wouldn’t be perfect. Just not worth it when the IFATC team are such a cool and skilled bunch of people.

@Yash_Prabhu

Taxing through other planes - this happens in expert server too but I recommend ATC to report the aircraft that is taxing to other aircraft.

As you’ve said - this happens in already on the Expert server. Not much more we can do here 🤷‍♂️

@Yash_Prabhu

Not stable approach. In expert server when there’s no ATC players randomly come from anywhere and land anywhere on the runway. But when ATC is there all around the world it’s best to report if they are not on a stable approach or ask them to go around.

I’m sorry but I think this is pushing it a bit too far. If we enforced extremely strict pilot skill standards you’d have an empty expert server. This is a simulator - there’s no reason why people on the expert server can’t still be perfecting their skills. If someone’s not on a stable approach, that’s their problem. Happens irl too.

@Yash_Prabhu

Last point is going off the taxiway - planes normally taxi through all taxiway but ATC should tell which taxiway to use. This also might come as a feature as it will be very helpful to the players and ATC in infinite flight.

I agree, this would be great. You can vote for it here.

“Drag and Taxi” Feature

Why do we need this? So, while everyone has been posting feature requests for even more planes and reworks for planes, I had an idea like @Chris_S that we need better ATC!! BTW, his idea of making ATC better and cooler is also cool, I suggest you go vote for it. Anyways, I hope you can help me adjust, edit, and such to make this feature request the best it could be. I searched around the feature category and found some similar topics saying that we need better ground ATC commands. I completel…

@Jw2004

The current vio ratio for G3 is 0.5, and if I’m correct, one needs only 2 landings to get back up

Uh, that’s not how ratios work. A violation/landings ratio of no more than 0.5 means that a given pilot must have at most 1 violation for every 2 landings they have conducted (number of violations ÷ number of landings). The whole idea here is that if people got a ton of violations months/years ago, their landing count (and theoretically their experience since) will offset that and prove that they’ve learned, in the most quantitative method we can come up with.

@Yash_Prabhu

Also increasing the grade requirements to 150 hours for grade 3 can be good. Otherwise 50 hours is very less for expert server.

Again, this is completely unreasonable. Expert Server should still be accessible - we’re not making a dramatic change in grade requirements like this anytime soon. Expecting everyone to be perfect isn’t helpful or practical, you have to give them a chance to learn in the environment in which they are expected to behave.

@Jw2004

Also, a maximum of 5 level 2 or 3 violations in a whole year is too lenient

I disagree - you have to remember the views of the pilots here who have been issued the violations because of a genuine misunderstanding of how to communicate with ATC. We all know that the quality of Training Server controllers isn’t great, so how are these pilots meant to learn without being able to legitimately put their skills into practice?

[Appalachian_Airlines]

@Magician

All get a level 2 violation for taxing through someone.

This is rarely if ever true.

[SollAriuum]

I’ve got an idea, and I think it could work wonders if implemented, althought how it would come to Infinite Flight or its implications are not of my understanding.

Anyways, I suggest a “ghost” button, kind of a “block” button in social media, if you will. You would be able to block a troll or someone you think is being unprofessional at your will, and they would disappear from your view.

This would allow us to remove unwanted behavior from our flights without changing the grade-table (which in my opinion shouldn’t be changed) and/or punishing those trying to learn. It would also appease those who want a super-mega-hyper-realistic server in Infinite Flight.

—

I do see some problems with my idea, such as: How would ATC know if you blocked someone and is taxiing through them because you don’t see them rather than because you’re just messing around? This and other problems could be somehow solved, though. I just have no idea how 😅

[Avaitor1]

@Yash_Prabhu

Last point is going off the taxiway - planes normally taxi through all taxiway but ATC should tell which taxiway to use. This also might come as a feature as it will be very helpful to the players and ATC in infinite flight.

Well we DO Have a Feature in ATC called
Progressive Taxi especially on expert server
, someone not wanting to listen to IFATC on Expert server well they get reported it’s that simple, I understand you all are frustrated with the server and I get it, But do we need a whole Topic for you all to complain about it? Because I know that the staff already have stress and other projects, and priorities for other things and also to help y’all! All I’m saying is go with the flow until the staff come up with an Effective Solution because by you all reporting it here and complaining here it’s not doing anything.

Therefore have a great Labor Day and great week
Regards,
Avaitor1

Edit: oh, and one more thing Coigging up the thread as well

[Appalachian_Airlines]

@SollAriuum

Anyways, I suggest a “ghost” button, kind of a “block” button in social media, if you will. You would be able to block a troll or someone you think is being unprofessional at your will, and they would disappear from your view.

I like that idea in theory, but in practice that wouldn’t work because IFATC would have no way of knowing who can see who.

[KaiM]

Me too, but I agree - it could quickly become an excuse for getting a violation reversed

[pog_3r]

Just sad how this server has become. :(

[Jw2004]

@KaiM

Uh, that’s not how ratios work. A violation/landings ratio of no more than 0.5 means that a given pilot must have at most 1 violation for every 2 landings they have conducted (number of violations ÷ number of landings). The whole idea here is that if people got a ton of violations months/years ago, their landing count (and theoretically their experience since) will offset that and prove that they’ve learned, in the most quantitative method we can come up with.

I wasn’t too sure either; hence the “if I’m correct”. The whole working of the ratio isn’t too much of a priority to me, I merely wish it becomes more difficult and more time-consuming to get back into the server.

@KaiM

I disagree - you have to remember the views of the pilots here who have been issued the violations because of a genuine misunderstanding of how to communicate with ATC. We all know that the quality of Training Server controllers isn’t great, so how are these pilots meant to learn without being able to legitimately put their skills into practice?

I do understand from what angle you’re approaching here, don’t get me wrong.
If one finds that a violation is unjust, and issued for an honest mistake, they could always appeal, the only effect it has is the cancellation of their flight. I believe that a read through the guides, proper preparation and careful practice could bring one pretty close to a succesful flight and ES experience.
Lastly, if one racks up 4 or 5 L2 or L3 vios, maybe they need to reconsider flying in the ES, as I believe it proves a misunderstanding of the workings and rules withing the server.

I am aware that I sound quite harsh, but I’m quite passionate when it comes to the Expert Server, I pay nearly 90 euros a year, least I should be able to expect is a server that lives up to its name…

[Yash_Prabhu]

For the last one at 150 hours there’s no excuse because it’s the expert server so flying 75days should be a expert.

[Yash_Prabhu]

I’m sorry if you misunderstood but I’m trying to say that taxiways have name in real life like J and A and ATC will say “N74YP taxi through J” so that’s what I mean to say instead of left and right. This also reduce the workload of ATC.

[Yash_Prabhu]

Planes taxi through each other and ATC does not report them. 70% of them taxi through each other without getting reported.

[Magician]

@Yash_Prabhu

For the last one at 150 hours there’s no excuse because it’s the expert server so flying 75days should be a expert.

In that case the servers will be empty.

[Magician]

@Yash_Prabhu

Planes taxi through each other and ATC does not report them. 70% of them taxi through each other without getting reported.

Sometimes ATC are compassionate towards pilots for intentional causes and turns a blind eye

[Yash_Prabhu]

No excuse please. This is the EXPERT server, you need to be an expert.

[Yash_Prabhu]

It’s the Atc problem which causes problem to us