Yesterday, I was instructed to “make right circles”, was on right base, and it drew an oval to my left on right base, with left turns on the chart.
I initially started turning right as took the instruction literally which took me over the approach, but then when saw the chart, thought, hang-on does this mean circle right base (with left turns), which actually looked more appropriate.
Fortunately in this case, ATC gave me another instruction, but probably thought, whats this guy doing!
Doesn’t appear to be any info regarding this specific instruction. Plenty on make right/left 360… which isn’t the same instruction.
Don’t know the full context, but it means stop what you’re doing and hold by doing circles at a given altitude until told otherwise. Used by approach when either you’re too high and need to descend before continuing your approach, or the airport is just busy and you need to wait a little bit.
Probably you were instructed to hold over a specific place or present position, descent or maintain at a specific alltidute and speed as @Phoenix591 said above . The following post might help you undestand better what happened yesterday:
I was still a little high, so understand why the instruction was given.
My question is more specifically did it mean circle right base (with left turns), or circle right, different to what the chart showed?
when you’re with approach, you’re not going to be sent in on right or left base generally (unless you ask for radar vectors) , approach is going to put you on final within 30 degrees of the runway heading.
Holding instructions such as right or left circles have no relationships to runways: take them literally. See the tutorial above
Picture depicts my relationship to the drawn hold pattern on the chart, and where the runway was.
Ok so, based on the tutorial, does it mean make a left turn (teardrop entry), to then be able to follow the holding pattern with right turns…
Or are we now saying I should of just made “right turns”… you can see my confusion :p
Any time ATC tells you to make left traffic/circles it means you’ll be turning left for any turns. Any time they say make right traffic/circles you’ll be making turns to the right.
A traffic pattern means you’ll turn right or left for you crosswind, downwind, and base legs according to which one they tell you.
You’d turn left and enter the hold such that the turns in the hold are the direction instructed by atc (who didn’t directly say how to enter the hold)
The traffic pattern has nothing to do with a hold.
You are absolutely correct turn left, to go direct to the waypoint, and enter the holding pattern. It would still be a direct entry not a tear drop, but you have the right idea.
That would be enter “right traffic”, though would it not?
Reason, I said teardop, is it would allow me to follow the hold with right turns, direct entry would be left turns…
Still struggling to understand, how this relates to the instruction “make right circles”), also didn’t give a waypoint, think it said current position.
I was just delineating the difference between the two
direct just means straight to the waypoint. Had you been going the opposite direction then it would of been a tear drop. If it was a current position hold, and you where headed toward the airport the controller put you into it incorrectly. In that case you would have made a tear drop or parallel entry, as the waypoint would of been your position when you received the hold. So keep going for a bit then turn 200-250° left to join a right pattern.
So somewhat like the green line…
Was that at KIND, @Jersey_Paul ?
EGLL - Runway 9R…
Sorry my degree measurement was off lol 250° So you turn around and come back to where you were.
So effectively 360 left, then follow the grey line… :op
Sorry, just trying to have it clear in my head for next time :op