I have a question regarding people who are reporting their position while they are in the pattern. I have looked already at other threads, however, they did not really anwsered my questions… Therefore creating a new thread.
(Yes this is the golden information)
So, my question is as follow:
If you are an ATC and a pilot is already flying in circuit (pattern), what is the appropriate command to give? For example: ‘You are already cleared to land, duplicate button’ or ‘the duplicate button’ or just ‘roger’ the whole time?
I am aware that some pilots don’t have the knowledge and therefore are reporting their position the whole time. But how can you “tackle” this “problem”?
And if a pilot decides to land on the ILS and after clearance to land on the ILS to report their position on final with Touch and go? Do you then, clear them again with traffic?(sometimes I get confused by that :-P)
If you’ve already cleared them for the option, go ahead and give them a “you are already cleared to land, avoid unnecessary reports.” If they call in for a full stop, just go ahead and roger it as that is them telling you important information (that they will not be continuing to fly the pattern) that you can use to plan ahead with.
As the command suggests, you can give his instruction if you’ve already cleared them for the option/to land. After this, they should NOT be reporting position. (Though on training server, who knows). The only exception to this is when they have been flying patterns for a while and tell you “XXX is on final, FULL STOP”, to indicate that they will land after this pattern to prepare you for a runway exit / spacing.
If you haven’t cleared them yet, they have every right to report position, and although on expert this probably ain’t necessary, on training you can just “roger” them followed by clearance.
Say 8SmartFlying (8SF) was the controller and I was doing patterns. He’s cleared me for the option, and then I report that I’m on left base. The correct command for 8SF to give me would be “you are already cleared to land, avoid sending duplicate messages”. If I were to continue to announce my position by saying “T-AIPEI is on final RWY XX”, that’s when “avoid sending duplicate messages” can be used.
The reasoning for that is because the first time, they haven’t reported position yet, so there’s no actual duplicate messages being sent. However, I personally have never seen someone report position twice (only once), so you shouldn’t have to encounter it very often.
@TaipeiGuru. MaxAsk… Are we to conclude from your commentary and guidance that an “Option“ granted during Pattern Work also includes a “Final Clearance” to Land? Or is a “ separate “Cleared to Land” direction required? Max
A clearance for the option does indeed include a clearance for landing. No separate landing request/clearance is necessary if one has been cleared for the option. Reporting full stop is just a way to let the controller know of your intentions. Thanks for the question!
As the previous replies have stated- if an aircraft inbound to your airfield that is without a clearance already, is more than welcome to report their position as this notifies the controller that they have not received clearance to land yet. However, if a clearance has already been issued, then a “You’re already cleared to land…” will suffice. If the aircraft reports its position once again, after you’ve told them that they’re already cleared, send a “avoid duplicate messages…”
Before I answer if that inbound is an aircraft that has been doing patterns- Yes, cleared for the option does include landing. To be precise, cleared for the option allows the aircraft to do a touch and go, stop and go or full-stop landing.
So, answering the question. Tower, having had an aircraft do patterns for a few circuits, is expecting that same aircraft to touch and go or stop and go. After necessary sequences, ATC issues clearance for the “option” (see above). ATC, not knowing that the aircraft is intending to do a full-stop landing, is issued a position report from the pilot (i.e. xx on left base etc) but ends with “Full-Stop”. ATC just replies with roger and nothing else, no clearances or sequences-nothing! As the aircraft is already cleared for the “option”, they already have clearance to do what they want.
Now you might say “Then why was that report even necessary then?”. It allows ATC to prepare for a normal landing instead of a touch and go, i.e. correct spacing, space on taxiway etc.
And to conclude, if an aircraft intends to continue doing patterns and reports his position, this report is totally unnecessary and can be replied with “You’ve already been cleared to land.”
Hope this answers your question. If you still have any questions, don’t hesitate to ask.
Usually I’ll let one slide - not really worth it. If it persists, then a duplicate warning is given.
“Already cleared to land” isn’t necessarily the most correct verbiage to use in this situation. The aircraft may be doing a wide variety of things other than landing with the intent to full stop. He’s not just cleared to land.
There’s a difference between the two and appropriate commands are allocated for each. I would hope people look at them carefully before posting contradictory information on the matter.