Today, on Expert, I was doing some pattern work, and after three touch and goes I decide to land, so I reported my position, on final, full stop, to ATC. He respond to me “you allready cleared to land, avoid sanding duplicate messages”. Yes, I know that I am cleared for option and I know that include landing, and I don’t report my position every two seconds, this is just helpful information to an ATC about my intention. It looks bad when you receive above message.
It is helpful to ATC when you announce full stop. This should be done when you are done doing patterns and you should only announce full stop once. It sounds like you did that. If you want to talk to the controller than you can pm them
I know i have done that once or twice as ATC if my airport is busy, I might just hit that because I cant find the airport is busy message. Otherwise you were not in the wrong for saying what you did. The ATC should have cleared you to land if he only cleared you for the option.
I have just given up doing patterns with ATC. You never know if they’ll understand your intentions. Its best to go to another airport and rip patterns there.
What airport was this at? I’ll notify the controller and let him know to stop doing this.
Wasn’t this at EGLC?
In my opinion he was right to send you that message. It’s doesn’t make any sense to report that under any circumstances if your cleared for the option. You just clog up the frequency with unnecessary reports.
No. As a controller, I appreciate it when people notify me that they’re full stopping after a bunch of patterns. It can make the difference between being able to squeeze an aircraft out or having to make some hold short. Operations change when you’re going from touch and goes to full stops. I have to tack on an extra mile or two for vacating.
The more useful information I have, the better. Noise with no purpose is the issue.
Honestly i see nothing wrong with what ATC said. If ATC is busy and you were given the option its understood that you might do a full stop at which time he or ahe will tell you to exit the runway and contact ground. Imagine if everytime you touched down tower cleared you for takeoff (left or right) remaining in the pattern. After a while you’d probably get annoyed and go somewhere else. Well if every person doing patterns announced full stop it would be the same effect on the controller.
@DeerCrusher honestly if its a major airport patterns ate most likely forbidden in real life. Mahor airports get busy and vfr sequencing is the lowest priority. If its a small airport i.e. vero beach and there’s little to no traffic then i can see the complaint about patterns being denied. Otherwise imagine the work load of the approach controller providing spacing for incoming traffic and an aircraft in yhe pattern turns too early or too late and is talking to tower (as a pattern aircraft should), recipe for disaster!
Heavydriver may have a point, but I digress. There isn’t nearly enough pilots announcing full stop at the same time that would make it bothersome. It isn’t a problem for me. Maybe for other people, sure, which is fine. The main thing is to consider that doing so is not wrong, but merely common courtesy. We shouldn’t be wrist slapping unless the pilot is spamming it more than twice.
Each to their own, though.
That’s an understandable point but does your personal preference set a precedent for the way all controllers should control throughout the Infinite Flight community and if it does not there is no reason to verbally reprimand the controller
It’s not a personal preference setting the standard. Like I said in my second point, if you read, controllers shouldn’t be slapping for a common courtesy gesture. The supervisor and testing team has been over this countless times throughout many tests.
OK I only ask because I’m taking my practical soon and I need to know this. Personally I don’t wanna be bothered with unnecessary reports. Now if there was some type of established precedent to go by I would adhere to it. I understand your point @JoshFly8 we shouldn’t be wrist slapping for a common courtesy by the pilot however pilots should tow the line when deciding to give those courtesies ensuring that it does not annoy or clogged up their frequency of the controller in my opinion.
I think it’s helpful because if you know they are going to come to a full stop then you can know for definite that you need to give some for them to exit the runway before the next aircraft passes the threshold. It’s not dependable as not all pilots use it but it’s nice for people to inform Tower because it helps in most cases.
In short if as a controller you space your traffic properly Full Stop, Stop and Go, or Touch and go shouldnt mayter because you’ll always have the spacing.
Is announcing that you’re on right downwind for a touch and go runway 10 a courtesy EVERY time the person is on right downwind ?
No I was saying that I’ve done that but only when I get extremely busy and can’t find the airport is busy message. He did everything right though as far as I can tell.
Refer to this. Both HD and I agree that reporting over and over is an issue. That’s definitely not okay to do. Feel free to slap the avoid sending duplicates there.
That’s where it ends, however. If the pilot feels it is prudent to say “hey, I’m gonna finish up here” when it’s all quiet, it really shouldn’t be a problem. Controller discretion. It’s just nice to know if I’d be able to squeeze an extra departure out or not. I live for efficiency. The more help, the better.
As a pilot, I’m more confused than ever as to what I should do or not do after this thread. Esp. now having to guess a controllers preference etc. I appreciate both sides of it though. If the airspace is busy I keep communications to min and usually on pattern work once i’m cleared for the option, unless i’m told to extend down wind etc, i presume i’m cleared for either, I don’t normally announce my positions either… but now i’m second guessing.
The main thing is, the keyword is ‘OPTION’. You don’t get cleared for a ‘touch and go’ in IF. So the option means exactly that, you have the ‘option’ to do either.
The general consensus look like it’s just the common sense rule, but it’s also a catch 22. If it’s busy, you shouldnt fill the airways and re announce your intention because you’ve already been cleared for the option and now you are just sending an uneccessary broadcast… however on the other end, @JoshFly8 stated sometimes it’s better to know that you’re doing a full stop so he can squeeze in a departure / sequence an arrival / call a base etc, however if this is the case, it sounds like the airfield is in fact busy and therefore the extra courtesy broadcast is going to go against the ‘busy rule’ as you’ll be broadcasting!
Due to the limitations of the messages that can be sent by ATC and Pilots (ie the real world you can casually let ATC know you’ll be full stopping in about 4 extra words when you read-back your clearance for the option), in my opinion, you don’t need to re broadcast your intention to full stop as you have been cleared for the OPTION.
I couldn’t agree more