Realism culture

Realism Culture:

Before this topic is unlisted, closed, deleted, or becomes a general bashing thread. hear me out:


What is this topic for?

This is a topic to talk about something I like to call ‘Realism Culture’, a unhealthy trend I’ve observed since I joined in June. This is to talk about the negative effects of this trend, why this shouldn’t occur, and to hold a productive discussion in a thread.

What is this topic not for?

This isn’t to bash those who like conducting realistic operations on Infinite Flight. This isn’t to create an environment to bash specific users, mods, IFATC, the dev. team or anything else.


So what is ‘realism culture’?

Realism culture is a trend of hating, disliking or annoying those that do not conduct 100% realistic operations on the expert server. It usually takes place on IFC threads and VA/VO slack channels. Here is how this usually propagates itself:

Method:
A user posts a picture or makes a post about a user flying on expert server or controlling, usually on a VA/VO slack channel or a IFC thread. In this post, they usually insult the user for flying a unrealistic route, using a unrealistic route, etc. If that user is there or someone else that cares, they usually respond with “But why does that matter to you?” The original person responds with something to the effect of: “Its expert server! You should be conducting expert operations. Please reconsider your choices and reconsider the server you are flying on. Use solo for this.”

Why is it a problem?

It creates a toxic environment on our forum and VAs. It discourages users from participating in these, knowing that they will be bullied despite following all rules. Its the definition of bullying. You are harming and intimidating users.

Expert server realism server:

Here is the opening text you recieve upon spawning in to the expert server:

Welcome to the Expert Server,

This server is reserved for serious users only, Real-world procedures apply and will be enforced by ATC.

- Be respectful of others
- Follow ATC procedures
- Do not pause or leave the app while communicating with ATC

The live servers are a communal environment dependent upon everyones participation for an enjoyable experience. Happy flying!

A common argument is 'Its expert server. Its expert flying" However, expert is not defined to realism. In the opening message it states nothing about using correct runways, correct aircraft, correct routes or anything related. It asks for correct ATC procedures and consideration of others, thats it. The user guide doesn’t mention anything about it either.

It does not effect you:

There is literally zero effect that occurs on your flight or life when someone flys Jetstar from Miami to Toronto. There is no effect when a A380 lands at an airport that has the biggest commercial service of a 747, as long as its fits at the airport. There is no effect when a British Airways A321 flys Cardiff to Heathrow. It does not matter. It does not matter. It does not matter.

It is just plain mean:

Lets consider a real world example, not about realism in a flight simulator but in a similar format.

“Why are you using Excel instead of Numbers?”
“Because I do not like using it, its confusing to me and hard to use.”
“You KNOW the industry standard is Numbers, you should use it, you can’t be an accountant without it! We conduct professional services here, you are fired, effective immediate.”

You see the similarity, it still in this case does not effect the hypothetical company (unless their clients require it or something but that is not the point) and is essentially a excuse to insult/harm someone. It is just mean to insult someone for something so insignificant.


To be clear:

I do not hold a grudge against those who like flying realistic flights, tutorials such as this wonderful KORD runway guide, or any specific person in the IFC and surrounding social platforms, or any type of realistic operation. I in-fact love doing real routes using real aircraft along with many here. My problem is with those that whine about someone else doing something not to their standards. Not with people who don’t do this.


What can we do now?

Those that don’t do this:
Continue to not encourage this, actively ask those who do to stop.

Those that do:
Realise the errors of your ways please. Apologize to those you’ve harmed in the past in a PM. And then head over to Those that don’t do this:

Moderators and staff:
I do not claim to be a expert on moderation or running a large forum, however, it should be made to cut down on these incidents.

VA/VO staff:
Cut down on these postings and dish out punishments and a clear explanation about this and why not to do it again. Slack channels are very prone to this occurring, so be on the lookout.


Below:

Hold a productive discussion about this in the thread below. DO NOT insult specific people, moderators, or anybody. Please.


Many times these topics are instantly deleted, closed, unlisted, etc to prevent anything taint of discontent with the forum and IF. I must ask this remains open as long as possible and listed at all costs. Please consider before closing please.

Let me know of mistakes in the topic text please!

Smooth flying IFC!

73 Likes

Very interesting and informative topic! I do agree that realism certainly should be present, one should not act rude or elitist towards those who simply haven’t learned the realistic procedures. If anyone needs help with being a more realistic pilot, feel free to contact me or @Philippe_Gilbert, who is probably the most realistic pilot I know on the IFC.
Smooth Landings!

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I do have a serious question though, what does the quoted statement above mean in your own words if the below is not defined under “real world”? Because my understanding is that real world procedures indicate to me that you should be using or trying to use the correct departure, arrival and approach procedures to a runway that is preferred. Using a correct runway is implied. 🙂

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Who cares about realism? It’s a flight sim. If a person wants to fly London to Easter Island, let them. Doesn’t matter. Very well said.

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Thats actually a good question @DeerCrusher. In my own words, it means that flight following, takeoffs, etc are to be requested correctly. However, that statement is incredibly vague, unclear, and should be changed. However, this isn’t quite the point. Thanks for asking.

Oh accidentally responded to someone else lol.

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I rarely follow realism 100%. Like once I did river visual with a 20 knot tailwind just for the fun of it. It’s more fun doing what you enjoy rather than almost forcing yourself to do a realistic flight. If I see a fun opportunity that’s not realistic I’m still gonna go for it!

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Hey! I was just thinking about this! I usually get quite picky when people fly unrealistic routes. I know that, and I know it’s not a good thing. Let’s say someone flies from Beijing to Taipei in an El Al 737, that does make me quite mad. You guys probably won’t like me for this. I know, I’m trying not to be like this. I can totally understand if someone wants to do this. As Pingu said, let people be free and fly wherever they want. This is a flight simulator, creativity thrives here. I’m trying to be more open minded, and I’ve made progress! Great topic @GreenFire

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Ah this is sure to be an interesting topic, anyways a lot of the realism (following proper IFATC instructions) falls into the pilot’s hands and it is their responsibility to read the User Guide and learn proper instructions. Beyond following IFATC rules and regulations, at the end of the day Infinite Flight is a simulator so let pilots do whatever their creative mind comes up with. For instance my local tiny airport of Boca Raton only has some GA traffic, however I often use a BBJ or Citation to fly to the coolest destinations my mind can fathom; such as Innsbruck or Easter Island. This simulator is also a means to express your aviation dreams!

By correct runway, I assume a correct runway wind wise and not IRL operation wise. I think that is what you mean since real routes aren’t enforced and if that is the implication I am very disappointed.

Awesome. I was only curious to get ones take on what/how they interpreted the phrase. I personally fly a mixture of real world and made up routes. Some for the realism, and some to simply be adventurous. 🙂

some runways are a one way in, one way out such as Aspen or Lukla. Wind and Operations are factors, both need to be considered equally.

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Thank you for this. The realism topic comes up every now and then however most of the time the topic is educational and nature and not attacking. These will often appear when the airports for that week include airports with certain procedures that the app is not yet or able to handle.

Realism is in the eye of the individual pilot. If you would like to fly realistic procedures, taxi, etc you are more than welcome. But some pilots spawn with engines on and are itching to take off. This community has users from all age and skill levels and the app gives them the ability to fly with some options. On the flip side there are a number of tutorials and online resources to help teach these concepts to new pilots who choose to learn the skills to take the app more seriously.

In closing answering a simple question from a new member is the friendly thing to do. There is always someone else with the same questions. You can always answer a question, provide resources to more material, or add more substance to help out. We were all new to the community once and a little bit of help can go a long way.

As always if you have a question about a post or see something that may not be right or attacking, please utilize the flag feature and the moderation team will address it.

Thank you for you time!

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Yes, if there is a TFR it should be followed, however these are rare and I think you do understand my point :)

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Great example. 😝


Quite the interesting topic here. I definitely see what you’re saying, and while I’m someone who is Mr. Realism, unfortunately not everyone is the same way, which is okay. Infinite Flight is a place to be free and fly to the most random places on the most random airline.

That said, you’re point regarding people complaining publicly takes it too far, in my opinion. It’s okay to give guidance and a friendly reminder, but by publicly shaming a specific person or a group, I don’t find it okay. Granted I haven’t seen too much of that, but it exists.

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Infinite Flight has all types of users. Some people may view this as just a game to pass the time, or some may view this as a simulator and therefore want to simulate real world flights.

Personally, I see no issue with someone getting upset for that. I myself like to be as realistic as possible when controlling and flying on the Expert Server.

When I see an A320 cruising at Mach 0.86 or someone doing a straight in landing to runway 19 at DCA, it bothers me very much and I wish they wouldn’t do that.

I’ve yet to see a topic or comment that is bullying someone for not being realistic. They all seem to be educational or neutral toned.

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@DeerCrusher well KASE does have a circle-to-land procedure typically used by GA aircraft for RWY 33 when the tailwind is too strong. This is typically only used in situations where traffic isn’t that much. Sorry for going off-topic, just thought I should clarify this.

I think this is a very important point. This is simply a simulator/game, and people should be allowed to do whatever they want (within reason). It’s not really other people’s job to enforce this “absolute realism” and tell off others for just wanting to do what their heart desires.

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In my view, people have opinions and have their own choices. There’s a level of not liking someone’s choice of route, airline, or aircraft. They may have a little rant to a few friends who are trusted to take it as a joke and nothing as a threat, and done. I’ll admit I do this. I’m all about realism and hate unrealistic procedures and actions.

Taking it to the next level and messaging a user, tagging them, or insulting them for not being realistic is where the line is crossed, and where I can see your frustration is coming from. This shouldn’t be an action taken by anyone, as everyone has freedom to the world, and all the aircraft within the game when having an active subscription.


Of course some, we can judge, we look, we don’t like users procedures. It’s when the finger is pointed, personally aimed at that certain person in a non-joking manner/environment is where I’d say that realism culture would become a ‘problem’.

If you feel like you’re being bullied for being unrealistic to real world use of routes, aircraft etc in game, then get in touch with the moderators. You’re subscription is a free, open access to the world, with your choice of whatever you want to use, whether others like what you choose or not, isn’t really your problem and business.

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Yup, same way actually. My problem is with those that decide to virtually murder someone for doing this though. Keep your opinions to yourself unless it is inconsiderate to you and disrupts operations. Thanks guys for the support :)

I do agree with this to a point. Yea ok I will be honest I do not like and will tend to get annoyed about people flying unrealistic aircraft and livery when I shouldn’t be but I do not go complain here or anywhere about that.

This tho falls under the fact being respectful to others its really not courteous if someone is specifically using the correct runway you should be courteous and use that same runway. I try and do the same thing. if I am landing against traffic when no one is around but if someone announces that they will be using the more appropriate runway I will change and fly the few extra minutes although I will most likely fly around to the correct side of the runway.

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There’s also a lot of stuff you just can’t control that we see everyday. Examples are IFATC using 27R and L and heathrow today for both landings and deps. Also pilots stopping within 4000 feet in an a380. It just isn’t in our control. If you want to follow realism 100% I recommend not flying to busy hubs because you won’t get it there.

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