Hey everyone
I have a question for all the IRL pilots.
At what point do you guys usually bring up the landing flaps?
And How many miles away from the destination airport do u start to set the flaps and the landing gear?
3 Likes
Most of the time landings flaps come up upon clearing the runway hold short markings. On aircraft where the flaps hang very low such as the Challenger with snow embankments on the edges of the taxiways, I will raise the flaps when on the runway and at a slower speed. Otherwise we’ll be dragging flaps and potentially hitting the snow banks with them.
Depends on the airport some times. 10nm usually is the trigger. As soon as we’re within 10-15nm from the airport first notch of flaps usually come in. I personally aim for 6.5nm on final before I drop the gear. Takes about 1nm for the gear to come down. By now I’m at 5.5nm out and request the last selection of flaps. By the time those deploy, I’m now at about 4.5nm out which is just above 1000ft AGL to meet stabilized approach criteria when on an Instrument approach. On a visual approach, I delay everything by 1nm to be stabilized by 500ft AGL.
Larger busier airports they’ll tell you when to slow down most of the time. Its expected we’re flying 250kts until ATC tells us otherwise. If you’re not flying 250kts, it can often result in ATC scolding us as its mentioned on some procedures to maintain 250kts. Could lead into a “possible pilot deviation” as well. So typically unless the chart says something different, I always fly 250kts until ATC tells me to slow down. Situation awareness is also another factor when it comes to setting up the aircraft configuration. Knowing where other aircraft are at, and how steep the approach is will also drive you to set up sooner than later. Going into Aspen for example, we’re at full landing configuation, gear and flaps deployed 20nm out while at VREF+10. Why? Its a 6.5˚ slope. Planes don’t slow down when the nose is pointed down within reason. haha.
Knowing your plane is key. How fast it can slow down, especially with jet powered aircraft is crucial. You can’t slow down and come down in altitude. Can really only do one at a time.
28 Likes
Sorry if I have dumb questions
I can speak for the A320 family. It depends on the company you are at as each of the policies for stabilized approach, and how things go are different just slightly.
For my company the flaps are not so much of a distance thing it is a speed thing If ATC slows us down. If it is far out to say 210kts and 20 miles out, we will set flaps 1. If ATC gives us direct to the final approach fix we will set up to be flaps 2 and 170kts. At this point we have options to slow down fast and get down at the same time by utilizing our gear and, if we are slow enough and trending down, additional flaps.
We have certain stabilization criteria to meet by the 1000ft and 500ft points on the approach.
Let me know if that answers your questions!
11 Likes
Ok, so it depends on the type of aircraft. But normally, we normally put the landing flaps up after we put the landing gear up, which would be a few minutes after takeoff.
Question about flap extension speeds: Does the aircraft automatically slow you down to the “S” and “F” speeds when managed speed mode is selected during the approach?
Also, is the gear extended before or after selecting Flaps 3, or is this up to operator/pilot discretion depending on the conditions?
2 Likes
It all depends on the configuration and how the box is set up and which phase of flight it is in. If you manage speed and the approach is activated your speed will be slowed down to green dot which may then pass the F and S speeds as you slow down. Green dot is calculated by the box.
For dropping the gear, as long as it is below landing gear extension speed you can drop it. I will use it if necessary to slow down and go down if ATC messed up the vectors or they kept us fast until a 5 mile final etc.
2 Likes
Just to clarify, as in the approach phase has been activated in the FMS?
Yea, the approach will activate automatically or you do through the FMS. Depends on what the pilot flying requests the pilot monitoring to do
2 Likes
Not a pilot but I’ve seen pilots bring it up at about 1500-4000 feet and it’s what I do in infinite flight as well. Once my speed is over 200kts and i have a positive climb rate then theres no need for flaps since flaps slow you down.
For approach, gear is down usually once the pilot reaches 2500ft from what ive seen. For flaps, I can’t really explain from what I’ve seen since deploying flaps depends on speed and nose pitch. But what I do is deploy them when I start to slow down the plane. My goal when deploying flaps is to keep a 3 degree slope.
1 Like
I actually seen similar situations as well in which flap and gear would be deployed about 7 minutes before touchdown
You put the gear up a few minutes after takeoff!?
Nah he’s referring to the flaps.
I believe when you reach 210kts when climbing after takeoff you can bring the flaps up fully. Correct me if i’m wrong.
I can answer questions… just not correctly :)
4 Likes
Here’s a picture from my manual on the 75/76. Hope it helps.
10kts prior to REF 40 and 80 each flap needs to be taken out. 10kts prior to REF80 you should be in clean configuration(flaps up/gear up). No set alt for these as it’s all speed driven.
Landing is dependent on the airport. If you are on a STAR with a transition (generally) you have to comply with speed and alt restrictions.
In the school house which is very different from the real world. 200kts downwind(generally 10-15miles from the airport)- flaps 1. Flaps 5 - 180kts. (Usually a base leg). Glide slope alive gear down flaps 20. One dot above gs intercept flaps 25 or 30. Now that’s in the school house where sim instructions will give you plenty of time to setup and get the plane set.
Real world flying into JFK, ORD, DFW, HOU and pretty much any west coast airport they want you fast. New York will want 170-190 5 miles from the runway. Not too bad on the 76 to manage but the 75 is a hard hard plane to slow down. It’s one slippery bird.
Hopefully I answered your question. Once you get me start talking about planes I can go on and on. Ha!
4 Likes
Yes A few minutes after takeoff. (Normally 1 or 2 maybe 3 minutes)
On what plane? I have never seen any plane put their gear down that late
1 Like
I’m pretty sure he’s talking about the flaps.
1 Like