Qantas has rejected the current offers that airbus and Boeing have put forward for project sunrise.
Airbus was pitching the A350-1000 with Boeing pitching the 777x. However Qantas has told the aircraft manufacturers to “go back and sharpen their pencils as there is still a gap”. The airline has said that it’s many factors include price and wanting more performance out of the aircraft.
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce was quoted in the same story as saying that “I have no problem… in saying ‘we gave it a good try but it didn’t work’”.
This news also means that the 2023 launch of these ultra long range routes be postponed or even cancelled.
Personally I’m not really interested in ultra long haul flights however many people are probably saving right now to fly such routes one day. Qantas made history with its two flights it’s performed with news reaching all corners of the world.
This just shows how Project Sunrise isn’t as easy as Qantas thought.
In my opinion, project sunrise was never meant to be successful or profitable. While there are people that would arguably pay the price to fly on such a route, I don’t think there would be enough people. Qantas planned this too quick, which led them into a situation in which there is no plane that could sustain such distance with an acceptable load factor, and thus earn profit.
I think that the A350ULR might/could be the only available aircraft to Qantas at this time for this route… Everything else would be too hard with a decent passenger load.
Imagine if they were flying it with the concorde. Tens of thousands.
But with prices, as they are now I mean $300 to Seattle from PORTLAND one way. Highway Robbery. it could be even higher than just the thousands. Only the ultra-rich could afford it. Well that is an exaggeration, it is possible. A ticket, return trip could maybe cost in the ten thousands.
The problem with Sunrise, if I remember what I was reading correctly from a few months back, is that Qantas wants to do a 4 class layout (first, business, premium econ., economy) on the route. With all that weight, it’s insanely difficult to even think about being profitable on the route. I mean, look at Singapore, their A350ULRs are only business and premium economy for a reason. The tech just isn’t there yet to be profitable on routes this long in a 4 class layout with the current planes being offered from Airbus and Boeing.
I was reading on another forum the idea of Boeing offering a newer 787-9 or 787-8 with increased range and MTOW as their next offering for Qantas, as someone mentioned that Qantas was very impressed by the performance of the 787-9 on the test flights so far. Plus, there have been rumors of a 787 range/MTOW increase ever since Air New Zealand ordered their 787-10s.
It’s going to be interesting to see if the manufacturers offer something new or Qantas decides to abandon Sunrise. Trying to make a route like this both profitable and affordable isn’t easy.
There is a lot of nuances that’s for sure. I think it is naive of them to want to have a 4 class setup. What Singapore has is much more feasible and the main attraction will be for business travellers anyways. If they want to have a first class I think it would have to be like Air France with a single row, then the vast majority business class with a few rows of premium and normal economy. However I think Qantas has a good enough business product to forgo First. Overall I’m sure demand is there and Qantas will have a ton of data from the Perth to London flights. I think they will probably go for an upgraded a350 or 777x over an updated dreamliner, just depends on how delayed the 777x becomes. I would put money on them to choose Boeing. I think that while sunrise might be delayed it is inevitable. I’m sure there are other airlines open to these types of routes so the manufacturers are closing in on a pot of gold
Yea, I’d expect a delay in the program at this point based on what they’re saying. Also, since the 777-8 isn’t selling well (and from what we know just lost a chunk of orders from Emirates, its largest operator, in favor of Dreamliners) having that be the plane for Sunrise would be a great boost for the program, especially the -8 variant.
But at this point, if Sunrise does happen, I don’t think it’ll be for awhile.
The 777-200LR is a good frame, but there really isn’t enough performance for the routes Qantas wants to run. They will be cheap to acquire, but trip costs will be higher. If Qantas cannot make it work with the A350-1000 and 777-8XLR, it is unlikely the economics will work out with the 777-200LR.
Not enough range on the 787-10. The -9 has the most range out of the 787 family, and even that can’t do it. Maybe if the rumors end up being true and Boeing releases a 787-10 with increased range, but as of now, it can’t do it.
Oh man that sucks Project Sunrise is a no go. But its a very inefficient flight. They more than likely had to fill up the plane most if not all the way, just to have it burned in 19 hours. Plus the weight of people and passengers.
Yea. Qantas definitely wants the pride of saying they can fly SYD-JFK and SYD-LHR nonstop, and it would be super cool, but as of now there’s no way they can’t do it both profitably and efficient while being affordable for pax.