Very interesting conversation!
I know we had a lot of those in the past, especially about things like development updates. How much votes count is truly an interesting question, because when asking on Instagram for example, we always get told to head to the community forum and vote for the certain topic. But why is social media taken into consideration then? When there is always the statement “head to the community forum”, shouldn’t this be the most “valuable” vote so to say? When having something like voting, first thing coming to my mind is that the most-voted topic should be taken into consideration first. That does not seem to be the case as stated here by many. Thats probably the question most of us would be happy to get answered.
Thank you! :)
Very interesting conversation!
It’s one of the most valuable, that’s not in question. The slight divide here is that despite that being the case, it’s not the sole decision maker as people do think.
Even more important is the understanding that the decision is that of the staff team, and there is no mandate for addition at all, even through a popular forum topic. Popular requests are an indicator for us, not a binding agreement.
I found it really interesting that those very active topics didn’t necessarily got many votes when it came to a community vote. I mean, a livery with 100 votes is probably considered as “often voted for”. When it comes to those votes, there are often more than 3000 voting, though. It seems like a direct vote often better represents the “real” desires.
Not quite sure what this means, but I think I agree with your point. A topic with 100 votes might be a popular topic, but of the many many many thousands of Infinite Flight users, all of whom have an opinion, 100 votes is a very small indicator.
I do understand that, but it seems like many here do not necessarily know that. I also very much appreciate how much impact the community has. Those vote numbers just tend to make things more emotional from time to time, given the fact how many comments in popular features are about “one more vote to XXX” or “we finally reached 100 votes!!!”
Check out these requests, they also have over 100 votes and they aren’t in the game, despite the fact they’ve been sitting there for more than 2 years, this is literally proof that they aren’t singling this livery out or picking on the requester, they just have other things in place that need to play out before this
Although kind in mind there are two threads requesting a Qantas 787 livery update. One for the silveroo livery and one for the aboriginal livery. So there is more support for this than it seems. Also I think it’s pretty clear qantas is not being signalled out.
Understood. Completely aside from the matter of votes:
Can we move onto the merit-based value this livery brings forward? ie. Replacing a short-term stop-gap livery “VH-VAL” with the real livery within a reasonable period? I think that’s reasonable even if this request only had 10 votes, since realism is the aim here. No fake liveries are added after all, and adding this would be so beneficial in many ways. Including the simple fact it would replace a fake livery and mimic what is flown in real life.
We’re really not asking for anything “new” here, so to speak. Especially considering the 737 already has the livery in question.
Said requester is me, by the way. I already understand what you’re saying, however are either of those liveries replacing like-for-like fake liveries in Infinite Flight? I think not. That ties into the merit-based argument, which consequently ties into what the staff seem to perceive as valuable.
I believe what is also really important is looking at votes relative to the population of the country of origin. Where this rates above both requests you provided.
Other liveries are most relevant to this discussion to actually figure out how a livery is successful. It has now been clarified this occurs in a very arbitrary way, which is not good from my perspective - maybe a controversial opinion, and I fully acknowledge that.
That is good to hear. However in response I ask, is the existing Qantas 787-9 livery in Infinite Flight being ignored by staff? This is a replacement situation, since the existing livery would be removed.
I agree. Disregarding votes completely, wouldn’t it be beneficial and desirable (and expected due to realism) that Infinite Flight replaces relatively recent but unrealistic liveries with their real counterparts? The 787 is a very popular aircraft in IF and deserves every major airline to be represented accordingly.
Totally agree, and I’m glad we can have it and hear from staff.
It’s still the same amount of time and work for the artists, but I do agree that fixes need more attention in the future, and as I noted I have done some work towards making sure this is the case. I think that all future updates will have at least a small level of focus on this going forwards.
Ill throw in my 2 cents on these livery issues, as i am admitably one to complain about them occasionally.
I fully agree with the sentiment many have already pointed out about the abundance of US / dominant airline liveries. Having every livery of one airline is IMO not really neccesary (DL A320 mentioned by @AlphaSeven).
It is very nice to see that the IF team has agnowledged the general livery issue/situation, and the dissastisfaction it creates within the IFC, and i think it shows that you are comitted to fixing the issue to the extent that business practices allow.
However, what i can not really agree with is a bit of what is in my opinon misguided diversity.
Yes i know im bringing up already discused issues, but the addition of the Dutchbird 752 is really confusing to me.
It literally had 0 votes, none of the media buzz mentioned by you above, as its a dead airline. This understandibly raised a lot of questions about how liveries are picked, as you just could have gone with one of the 100s of lesser known livery requests.
I will finish off with this:
Please do write said blog. Not just so that you can link it, but to actually explain as much as possible to the IFC how livery choices work. I think i speak for most of the IFC when i say we just want some transparency. The closing of the Concorde topic is an excelent example. You closed it, explained why it cant be done yet, end of story. Not everyone is super happy, but at least we know your reasoning.
Yesssss!!! great post, you nailed it!
For better or for worse (it’s very disappointing for me), this is the way IF chooses to implement features and liveries in particular, and that won’t change except for a greater focus on smaller fixes as mentioned by Misha. I believe this is still problematic, as the community is misguided by the belief votes have a greater weight than in reality. Which would be clarified in the blog and bring every question and answer together, hopefully. Simply put, I also understand the reasoning, but it doesn’t seem like the best way of choosing what to implement from the perspective of users outside the US/Europe. Because geography and certain biases is entirely relevant to this discussion due to the fact it significantly influences success of requests and perceived user demand.
Good to hear. This seems to be related to the whole topic of diversity of liveries, because often US liveries are prioritised for good reason. But this delay is excessive and this livery is in dire need of a refresh since Qantas now owns and operates all 787s they ordered in this paint job.
I’ll just end with a note about current trends. Yes, before it was very US-centric with an unholy amount of Frontier and Southwest aircraft, for example. This was before my time and before we paid a little more attention to making sure we cater to all as fairly as we can.
However, look at the B77L/F/W, the B752, and the 21.1 liveries. I think it is safe to say we have moved away from this excessive US-centric trend in recent times, but still remembering that our biggest demographic is the US, so there will likely be a little gravitation towards that direction in many certain situations.
I desperately hope a small amount of attention is put towards updating the Qantas 787-9 as we’ve all flown that old livery in IF and appreciate realism more than anything, something IF definitely provides. An exception being the majority of Qantas long haul routes. Meeting that ultimate goal here would enable us to fly away happy I guess, and of course this topic will be put to rest :)
We really need this livery in IF. The current one doesn’t exist on the 787 nor does the registration. Plus the Silveroo looks AMAZING! 😍😍😍
Someone finally said it lol
That is true, and it is a postive development which i very much like! I think everyone just needs to remember that this will not be an overnight proccess, and that you still have all other aircraft to still “De-americanize” a bit when it comes to livery choice (A320s, 737s, 787s, A330s wink wink)
Wow this conversation got a lil’ heated. I get where you guys are coming from. The current livery in game doesn’t exist and replacing it with this one would definitely be awesome. It would also add more realism. However it is also important that liveries are added from smaller countries or from a topic that has less votes. If Misha were to only add liveries from requests that have a lot of votes, imagine how many users would feel like their request doesn’t matter. Not just that we probably only have major Airlines liveries like Delta etc… because that is where you can see most of the votes. For example I really want the Air Malta A320 livery and Air Dolomiti for the E195. But those topics don’t have a lot of votes. So in the end no matter how many votes a topic has it is important to pay attention to every request.
I really appreciate the clarity and time @MishaCamp has given us around not only this livery but many others. I definitely agree the old livery should be fixed ASAP, but I also understand that the Infinite Flight team has a lot on their plate trying to improve our experience in many other ways. Unless we get a smaller livery update this year (like what happened with the A320), this livery might not be here until late this year or early next year, which is a shame, as it would make it over 4 years since this request was even asked. Obviously this is purely speculation, maybe we will get more than 2 updates this year, as buildings have obviously taken a lot of effort and most likely caused the less frequent updates. That’s just my 2¢…
The moral of all of they guys and gals if you want something be patient dont think they forgot about you or this livery because they havent. They are on the forum just like you and see this request just like me. I just read through what was a nice conversation between both parties and calmly talking about why it hasnt been added and the possible future of this request.
So be kind nice and patient and good things will come eventually. IF is doing wonders for us currently making us one of the best Mobile sims on the market giving us great graphics, well crafted aircraft, and buildings. As long as everyone here is still patient about this livery they will see it so dont think they dont!