Problems Strike the Expert Server Again

Alright folks. Buckle in for a little lesson. When I was on the expert server earlier today, I noticed a problem that occurred not once, but twice at EGLC. I don’t want this thread to be a complaint/rant thread but rather an informational thread for those who are still confused.

I’d like to first point those who may need a little refresher to the #tutorials category to take a look at the plethora of tutorials created by staff members and other users within the community.

Lets get going. I thought it would be a nice day to do a handful of patterns at London City (EGLC) with a friend. The weather conditions were perfect for racking up some mad XP, with a nice strong headwind. As 2 well seasoned IF pilots, you would expect one to look up to them as an example. We were constantly making the appropriate radio calls, to let others that would be inbound or departing the field, of our intentions. As we were in the pattern, over the span of about 10 minutes, two separate aircraft spawned in and made the appropriate radio calls as one should; however, it was to the wrong runway. As you will notice from the first picture that I included I am on final for RWY09 @ EGLC, and my friend is on left downwind for RWY09. After sending a few traffic advisories to the ill-advised aircraft, the pilot continued to backtaxi down to the runway with a tailwind. Mind you, the winds were in the neighborhood of 15-18kts. Let me just give you some statistics what taking off/landing with a headwind or tailwind does to aircraft performance.

Headwind: Taking off into the wind will reduce the ground roll of the aircraft and at a lower ground speed. The airspeed at which an aircraft takes off should still be the same. A rule of thumb that can be used is for every 1kt of headwind, the takeoff distance can be reduced by 1.5%. Keep in mind that this is a rule of thumb and not always accurate to the aircraft being used. I personally thing the less runway that I use the better.

Tailwind: Taking off with a tailwind is much more painful. We should increase the takeoff requirement by 10% for every 2kts. Or about 5% or every 1kt up to 20kts. You will have less airflow over the wings which means less lift. This will result in a higher ground speed for the aircraft which can make it a bit “squirrelly” and will result in more runway being used.

I am still trying to figure out the reasoning why one would takeoff with a tailwind in this case. I have come to the conclusion that the direction of takeoff for the ill-advised pilot took off from the “red” runway simply because it was a more direct shot to his destination. Yes, truly quite sad… One would think that an issue with a “rushed” pilot would takeoff from the closest runway which happened to be 09 but he insisted to go out of his way and make us work around his plan. If you are rushed, or in a hurry, it has been made clear to take your flight to the Casual server or Training Server for that fact. Let’s keep the Expert Server reserved for those who want to fly seriously and follow the rules.

Moral of the story: Before you go and fly, don’t just spawn in and immediately request pushback or taxi… please. If the field does not have ATC services, observe the area, listen to the radio calls being made (if any), observe the traffic flow and the activity at the surrounding airports. More importantly observe the traffic flow at your destination. And lastly utilize Unicom. It doesn’t hurt to use it. Mark, Tyler, and many others have created helpful #tutorials in the form of YouTube videos to guide you through how to use the features of Infinite Flight. Please use them and help those out who want to enjoy their time.


Well said! No ATC doesn’t give you the freedom to do whatever you want.


Good point made, an airport with everyone using Unicom correctly can function suprisingly well but that 1 pilot always ruins it.

Use the report button


This relates to this issue

It’s a big issue but the perpetrators are the only ones that can fix it!


I did a little mixing for what is an average. This happens to be from Cessna 172R Nav III POH.


I completely agree. But if they look and see what we do as an example, maybe… just maybe, they will have a slight change. That’s asking a lot but they are the only ones that can fix it.


Ahh; misread something on your post. Read 10% for 2 knots and 5% for 20 not 5% for 1 up to 20

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He couldn’t be bothered to check the map or listen to your advisories. This guy belongs in TS1.


MaxSez: I agree fully with @DeerCrusher. All Air Space is Controlled in some fashion. The primary Controller is the Pilot Flying (PF) in all cases cause, he’s the decision maker. I been caught in the same scenario as described. Like this evolution it appears there where 3 aircraft involved. The Flight of 2 and the ignorant interloper. He either did not know the rule, thought red means no or flouted the prescribed procedure. The Flight of 2 had no options, it take 3 reports to burn the sucker so they were forced to soldier on and regroup. So let’s solve this problem, reduce the established “Report” requirement to 2 reports by any 2 Pilots of any grade in the Air Space, or the Controller and a single Pilot, both of any grade in order to vaporizes the ignoramus.
Bottom line, This suggestion is an intermediate permanent solution, The final solution is an Expert Server multiple choice machine graded test.


I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to this but rather would be in support of this; however, there would need to be a practical along side. Similar to IFATC. This can be discussed elsewhere or maybe at another time. I just wanted to bring up an issue that I noticed occurring more and more often. But today really hit the nail on the head when the issue occurred as frequent as it did.


This happened to me earlier, me and this other aircraft were taxiing to the runway being used before ATC closed and next thing I see is a plane take off from the other direction. Bunch of noobs!! 😡


I’ve noticed this issue on TS1 even when there is atc. People seem to constantly insist on taking off on the closed side of the runway.

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I had the very same thing happen at TFFR on Expert last week. I think we all sympathize with you and agree with your frustration with the matter. I took a few screenshots and let it go. Next time, I’ll be hitting the report button. That’s about all we can do until they give us grade 5 pilots a ghost button. 😂 (Total joke there at the end for those of you who may have missed it.)


Very well said! A post surrounding Unicom which will help out many less experienced pilots, is linked below;


My screenshots and report button are my best friends. 😁 Especially when they’re community members I’ll just shoot the screenshot to their PM.


MazSez: Let’s claify one point once and for all, Red Runways are not “Closed Runways”. Red/Green runway lighted threshold delimiters where introduced years ago prior to live! At that time pre ATC, Red runways indicated closure. This action was initiated to control the flow only and facilitate downwind evolutions for Fledglings. With the introduction of Live/ATC the Red Closure initiative for Flow control was discontinued. Red runways now at Controlled Airfield mearly indicate the red end marker is upwind to some degree (Up Wind=Tail wind to some degree.). At controlled field ATC will determine the severity and direction of prevailing wind and will route traffic to a Red Runway at their pleasure. At uncontrolled runways it’s a Pilots chose to use the Red Runway if it does not counter the prevailing flow or wind/direction is above airframe aerodynamic capability. All aircraft airframe as calibrated during airworthiness certification. Wind/Crosswind tolerances are published in each aircrafts by types in Pilots Operation Hanbook (POH), Quick Reference Guide or airworthment documents. Since these documents are not readally available to members, the IFATC rule of 10 applies. Winds Under 10 mph in any direction your good to go, Exception, as long as you follow the flow where there is traffic in the pattern.


See this all the time, especially with a slight 5 knot crosswind. [Traffic flow, however, should be paid heed. See too many taking off 27 when everyone else is taking off 09. If everyone is taking off 27 and it’s red, go for it.]

Just to expound a little:


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