I wanted to report my experience of the expert server this afternoon to highlight some of the over zealous atc and how they can ruin the experience of infinite flight. Most of the time atc on expert server is fantastic and are so good they should be getting paid! however from my experience some controllers are to quick to threaten ghosting to aircraft instead of realizing their own mistakes.
I had been approaching sfo from the north co,in from Seattle following atc instructions and at this point was one right base 28R. I was less than one mile from final and had begun my turn when atc tower instructed me to extend downwind. Then immediately threatened with ghosting I had to end my flight. A waste of 1:30 hours for no reason.
I see a few problems.
One, i believe ghosting should be use for players who are ruining the experience of expert server for the rest of us by: being unrealiatic, not obeying ground instructions, being unresponsive to atc. What is more unrealistic is hearing constantly on atc the controller telling people they will be ghosted. Controllers need to realize a few key things. 1, infinite flight isn’t perfect, it can be hard to follow some of your instructions/ give appropriate replies. 2. You may have made a mistake too or not been clear or fair to pilots. 3. In a realistic world you can’t ghost every plane which isn’t where you want it.
IF is something users pay a lot of money for and invest a lot of time in. Having that time and money being taken from your for mistakes (on the part of pilot or atc) does not build a good environment and helps no one.
I’m not a stickler for perfect atc by any means. Personally I’d rather their be more atc who are less than perfect than only one airport open with a pro controlling. My problem lies with atc being the supreme authority even though they are just as human as everyone else.
Yes, you are making good points, but this is exactly why it is perfectly acceptable to PM the controller afterwards to improve performance on both sides, pilots and ATC.
I’ve had a couple of problems with the ATC one which I was contacting for approach but the ATC controller didn’t hear as there was a glitch in the game but was sorted out when I was speaking to them another one was when I landed at LAX on runway 24R was told to exit the runway and cross runway 24L and soon as I was crossing the runway was threatened of ghosting as was told to read the forms on how to use ATC because apparently I wasn’t cleared to enter the runway when I was already cleared I know the bigger airports are busy but sometimes it only takes a second to look back and see what you’ve said before threatening of ghosting
Honestly I feel sometimes they abuse the use of that ghosting threats it’s just annoying sometimes when u are following their commands yet they still threaten u.
As always please PM the controller and discuss any concerns with them, we are always learning. I love it when people message me with any issues because I can learn from it, not doing this though won’t change anything so do make every effort to do so. If it doesn’t get through then PM an ATC mod and they will assist you also.
As ATC we don’t won’t their to be an imbalance between the pilots and controllers as that’s not what IFATC is about. We serve you!
I have no issues with ATC controllers I really appreciate what you’d do as it make the experience better and i really enjoy it but as I said one of the issues which I had was a glitch in the game which the mods know about so it was neither the controller or myselfs fault but the other one was really down to be really busy as it was at LAX and it was just a small thing but was a bit annoying but we are only human and sometimes forget what we have said but it only takes a second when your communicating to a aircraft to see what was said before threatening of ghosting
Of course. We should be patient and not threaten to ghost pilots immediately. That’s not something any controller should do unless you did something seriously wrong. If anything such as that happens again PM the controller and question them for their actions. We should all be held responsible for our actions so if needed add an ATC mod and let them weigh over the situation.
It used to be that we had a “please follow instructions” only - but due to issues the “or you will be ghosted” part was added to the end of the sentence. When you hear that, it’s not a threat, it’s the controller asking you to please follow instructions - sometimes the pilot may have missed the last message or may have misread a runway number - it’s a heads up - we are asking the pilot to revisit the last given instructions and make sure he is following it.
Don’t get too tied up with the “or you will be ghosted”, what matters is the “follow instructions” part.
You shouldn’t have cancelled your flight, if you felt that you were in the clear continue your flight…dont leave. If you are gohsted kindly PM the controller, add a moderator and go from there.
I can tell you that after a year and a half I was not to long ago gohsted for the first time, got to say at first it was unpleasant. I messaged the controller and a moderator was also in the convo and even though the gohst stuck because of my very unusual error, it was a very good learning experiance for me.
You got to keep in mind that the controllers, which volunteer their time for this, work their tails off to become IFATC controllers and I highly doubt they want anything other the highest quality experiance for both the pilots and themselves.
They are trained and supervised with the highest level of training.
I’ll tell you one thing without getting to personal, I know of a controller who was demoted for cutting sombody off at a busy airport and he wasn’t even controling…they have a high standard.
Just the other day a controller did that to me because autopilot wouldn’t turn quick enough, I simply sent a PM to the controller and we settled it. Just PM the controller if you remember who it was.
In addition to what @MannyG and @Patria have mentioned, controllers more often than not see a bigger picture which pilots may not be able to appreciate. You maybe getting too close to the aircraft ahead which spoils the other pilots experience of Expert Server like you yourself pointed out . Besides the fact that if you are wrongly ghosted, you can get it reversed after your side of the story is heard and the controller may face consequences. You have no idea how much TS behaviour has crept into ES. Controllers face the flak from others even if they are being lenient on someone or too harsh. The wrongdoers always say that they were ghosted for no reason and it was harsh. Its a no-win situation.
I am not IFATC but having been on both sides on the TS you really don’t know who is lazy and wants a shorter route and who is trying to actually follow your orders. If they don’t start taking the turn quickly when there are lots are planes you can’t afford to waste time waiting to see or coming back to check on them. I believe it has been mentioned that IFATC don’t have a please follow instructions command without the ghosting part.
PM is a good route to take this from the feedback.
I think the major takeaway here is that controllers should be more forgiving and not threaten ghosting, or IF should have a better way for controllers to be demanding without threatening ghosting. And pilots can directly reach controllers via PM if they had an issue they would like to discuss with the controller.
In my opinion we have a very limited number of ghosting /mistakes however you would like to describe it, before you are sent back to TS. Which makes it hard for me to believe there are rampant numbers of people acting like ES is TS. I’ve personally never seen a pilot on ES doing anything I would say should have them ghosted. (I’m sure it has happened, i just don’t think it is common).
I just want the best for IF, giving honest feedback will make it as good as it can be in the end.
well then that is something IF should sort out, because that is how it sounds. Also remember most pilots aren’t frequent community members so they do not know “what you mean”. Again, this is not an attack on IFATC, this is a dedicated user wanting the best for everyone and proposing ways to make IF the best experience it can be.
I understand the intent of your post, I know your message is not an attack. We also want the best for everyone. Maybe you can do a feature request asking for the “or you will be ghosted” to be removed, or to give the controller the option to add that do a message or not… my point is you are only focusing on the last part of the sentence.