Please unlink autobrakes and spoilers controls

When selecting an autobrake setting, the spoilers will automatically ARM in preparation for take-off or landing. Infinite Flight User Guide - Autobrake

It’s so unexpected and unintuitive that by setting the autobrakes, the spoilers are armed automatically.

It probably works fine under the normal procedure, but once you are doing something a bit differently, i.e. descending with the spoilers extended, and you set the autobrakes, then your spoilers go away, and moments later you wonder why you are gliding or hear the overspeed warning if you are not careful. After a couple of times, you may remember to unarm the spoilers and put them back in the extended position, but it shouldn’t be like this.

This feature has been rolled out for such a long time now, that people may have already gotten used to it. But it’s more of the way of the design that is annoying than the feature itself. It’s the same design cleverness without considering the human factor that caused so many automation accidents, including the two 737 Max crashes. If they are two separate systems with separate controls, they shouldn’t be able to interact with each other. And if they are unlinked in an actual aircraft, they shouldn’t be linked in a simulator.

If a real pilot needs to prep two systems individually, I definitely wouldn’t see it as an inconvenience and would like to do them separately as well. Or maybe it’s just me

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Hi there, the auto brake is linked to the spoilers is a feature that dont let you forgot to set the spoilers, from the t/o to the landing your auto brake should always armed, also for the real world, they will always working together, if you don’t really like this, you can set manually for these, but for me the auto breaks will auto turn to med and that’s the position for landing, and the spoilers will control by myself, in my view that was a good feature, if you have any special requirements can set it manually(A little annoying but a great solution

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Hi! I agree it’s more convenient, but it’s not about the convenience. If you tend to forget to arm the spoilers, there’s the checklist. Have you heard of the “after autobrake checklist” that reminds you to confirm the spoilers’ position? No, because that’s a bad flow. If it’s all about convenience, then why not auto-flaps, auto-gear? I have seen people forgetting those all the time in this game.

And I want to point out, that many systems work together in the real world, but none are linked together, meaning changing the state of one system doesn’t affect the states of other systems (at least they need pilot confirmation). It’s not if I like it or not, it’s the design principle that puts pilots at the center of the control. There are automation like the auto spoilers stow and the flap load relief system exist in the real world already, they help pilots in a pinch, but 1. need special attention in training, 2. are clearly indicated in the cockpit, 3. go back to the original state once the critical situation is over.

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I think it’s an Airbusism, that being the autobrake and spolier system are built off Airbus logic. For the Airbus, it’s realistic. For Boeing, at least the 737 that I know, I agree it isn’t. Not sure what can be done about that though.

Again, don’t know about Airbus, but certainly in Boeing aircraft that definitely isn’t true. In fact I think autobrake being off is part of the after takeoff checklist. Why would it be set if you haven’t done your eneoute landing performance yet?
The speedbrake should only be armed for the landing checklist. Realistically on Boeing a/c the speedbrake should not be armed for takeoff as that would give a config warning. They aren’t coupled like they are in IF and I guess on the bus.

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That offers to the SOPs of different airlines, not for all the airlines are same👍🏼

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What you need it create checklist by your self to let you not forgot the things you need to do during flying, the checklists is a reminder to remind you about what should you do during the flight, in infinite flight there was no many real world procs, because if do not have these buttons, what you only need to do is remind yourself in the flight👍🏼

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Of course, but speedbrakes being armed for takeoff will give a config warning, and autobrakes will automatically flick from RTO to OFF once in the air.

But yeah I am only speaking for the 737, and yes as you say for one set of SOPs, but SOPs won’t influence that.

Yes Airbus in real world they arm the spoilers for takeoff and landing however in the Boeing they do not that’s why I turn the spoilers when flying Boeing and I don’t in Airbus until I put the gear up

My two cents about this is to set the auto brake on only when the decision to land is confirmed, that is usually at about 1000ftAGL, when at the correct approach speed and on the right flight path (speed brakes should never be required anymore).
Before thinking about braking and spoilers, let us make sure we approached well enough to land safely!

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The autobrake and speedbrake aren’t coupled on Airbus either. Autobrake is either a knob or buttons located near the landing gear selector. Speedbrake is a lever near the thrust levers that you physically pull out to arm it. Very similar layout to Boeing. Different configurations for different stages of flight, doesn’t matter. The point is, no matter whether it’s Airbus or Boeing, the two systems never cross over. The plane never predicts what the pilot wants to do.

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It’s a nice work-around, but it’s not perfect. The 5.5-degree steep descend approach into EGLC is a good example, the spoilers are extended all the way on to the ground. It’s risky to assume you will never use the spoilers from 1000 AGL to ground, it’s only a matter of time before you get caught off guard.

What a kludgy solution! By not acknowledging the mistake, and asking people to deviate from the norm, which is a resolution from historical mistakes that people might have paid their lives, just to accommodate a broken system. Wow

Hi, I guess the way I think about it is:

There are a lot of aircraft types being represented by a common interface, so some abbreviations are necessary to keep the entire range of possible irl implementations from getting complicated beyond the scope of flying in IF. For a sim there have to be choices made in the delivery of relevant “core realism.”

but as you said:

If so, to be honest, I don’t see how it’s too much of a problem.

And I don’t believe this is an accurate statement:

There are all kinds of systems that interact with each other. An AI generated example:

EGLC’s case is unusual enough that it requires special training, unique procedures, and in some cases aircraft modification.

“The A318 was specially modified to handle the steep approach.”
Which Aircraft Can Land At London City Airport? (simpleflying.com)

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Right, but… you can always use spoilers when autobrake is armed. You only need to move it from armed to flight, then back to armed. Or am I missing something?

Well, I think @adit put it clearly there. The real issue is one (small) interface, many different planes AND pilots, one good enough solution. Perhaps time to move to other (PC?) platforms?

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My suggestion for you if you want a realistic experience, you should move to PC not infinite flight🙂‍↕️

I might state this a little differently.

From my view it’s not about realistic vs unrealistic, because all sims have to make some compromise on the irl case.

The fact that IF handles that compromise in its own unique way, doesn’t make a pc sim more realistic for me.

A pc sim comes with a lot of extra baggage, a cost that doesn’t really take me any closer to a meaningful connection with flying than IF.

IF hits the sweet spot in terms of getting the best subset of reality just before the point of diminishing returns.

The next best step beyond in terms of realism is perhaps irl pilot training.

In terms of transferring sim skills to irl training, I would doubt the pc sims have any advantage.

Yes, one system gathers information from everywhere to do its own thing, that is different from one system tells another system what to do. For example, in a go-around, thrust levers don’t tell the autobrake to deactivate because it knows the plane is doing a go-around, the autobrake senses the thrust lever is at a high power setting position, which makes no sense to burn the brakes, so the autobrake responds accordingly. If there’s a high degree of overlap/coordination (e.g. flight profiles, flight routes), they fold into one system, like the FMS. The FMS is quite special on modern aircrafts because it knows a lot more, but it still doesn’t do stuff for you without your input: lower the flaps (fact check: the FMS only advices flap settings), lower the landing gear, arm the brakes, etc., and you have to monitor what the computer is doing. Multiple systems contribute to one goal (deceleration for example), that’s redundancy, and redundancy doesn’t mean these systems can self-organize and self-cooperate, right under the pilot’s nose.

If assumptions can be made, just imagine: whenever you are using full flaps, the plane assumes that you are definitely going to land, so landing gear is automatically lowered for you, with no input necessary. If you don’t want to land, you can retract the gears back up. If you want to land with other flaps settings, no problem, just lower the gears manually, so versatile! The plane can be a lot “smarter” if it’s designed like this, is this what we want? Why does anyone have the authority to decide/pick, that lowering the landing gear is an important part of the piloting experience, so you do it on your own, while as for the spoilers, if it extends when the airplane touches the ground, it’s good enough so whatever?

I completely agree with you that compromises had to be made on a common interface for a simulation game on a mobile device, but that has nothing to do with this issue. If there’s a lack of features due to limitations, we cope with that. But this is an unnecessary extra feature that the developers thought was such a great idea and they put work into it. Do they need more screen real estate to put another button so I can arm the spoilers on my own? No, the buttons are already here. Do they need more computational power to de-couple the autobrake and spoilers? No, it’s less work. The core of this debate is pilot-oriented design, the Airbus vs Boeing automation style argument doesn’t apply here either, because the essential value of a flight simulator is pilot control.

In terms of realism, that is a no-fruition topic here on this forum. “If you are not happy, why don’t you go to another simulator, why don’t you go into a real plane? Why bother to play this game at all? Why bother to play any games at all? If what we have is what the developers offer us, why bother to have this forum to gather people’s feedback?” The conversation goes nowhere.

Of course, there is the features category for the community to add feedback such as you are doing, on what are desirable future additions.

So, I definitely think you should contribute your opinion on this, and take advantage of either an existing features topic, or create a new one if your interest can’t be found in an existing topic.

Though you might have to get to the relevant trust level first. But that is not a matter of too much time and effort.

The “if it works, don’t fix it” strategy probably works in a sh*t pile GitHub repo, but not on an aircraft. Otherwise, why the 737 Max anti-ice debacle would be such a great deal? Why so many ADs had been issued when no accident had occurred yet? Of course, you could argue that crashing an airplane in a game has no real world impact, then I don’t have a response to that.

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I guess this says all. (It’s greyed out lol)