Pilots, trust your controllers! when and no backtaxi is needed.

ATC
#1

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Hello guys!
Yesterday I controlled in WIDD and noticed a problem that many of you have. We controllers are very prepared, we pass several tests before can control in EXPERT, so you will have to trust us and follow the instructions.
At WIDD in the runway 04 there is the possibility of backtaxi, so we see it and we know it.
if I tell LINE UP AND WAIT, it means that you do not need the BACKTAXI if I should give you the BACKTAXI command, yesterday I saw so many pilots with small planes do backtaxi after I told him LINE UP or CLEARED fOR tAKE OFF.
As can you see from the pictures,there are enough room for takeoff without backtaxi.
So every time you are in this situation, remember that if the controller does not tell you BACKTAXI not you MUST do it!
because in this way you can create us problems with the inbounds. thanks a lot, I am available to all your questions.

34 Likes
#2

You can just ghost them, no need think twice.

4 Likes
#3

it is never nice to ghost someone, in this case I would do it only if impede traffic, if not, avoid it, it is a mistake but it’s not so serious. the point is that they must trust the controller and do what they tell him.

21 Likes
#4

Agreed. Ghost if causing a problem for others. If they’re alone like in this example the “See Help Pages” would suffice.

4 Likes
#5

đŸ€” I thought that was the PIC’s call to make an intersecting departure. Just another comm failure to me.

15 Likes
#6

Not rely on IF. I’ve been at Aspen in a Cirrus and they wouldn’t let me takeoff runway 33 from the threshold. I would like a request back tack command Brussels I’ve also been in a situation where I feel it’s not safe to takeoff from an intersection, but have to due to not being able to request to do it.

1 Like
#7

Brandon is correct like usual. It is unfortunate that the pilot cannot state they require full length.

12 Likes
#8

Sorry but I can’t get the point.

1 Like
#9

The point is you help the pilots not the other way around. If they back taxi as PIC they felt it was necessary to do so. You don’t ghost for that. If your working an airport with a back taxi expect everyone to back taxi even if they all don’t. Expect it until pilot comms are improved it is what it is. The PIC is the decision maker we are hear to aid them. Never forget that

9 Likes
#10

Controllers are not in a position to overrule a decision made by the PIC. If a pilot says they need full length, that means that they either did not make the calculations needed for an intersection takeoff, or they actually can’t perform that intersection takeoff. It would set a dangerous precedent if controllers start thinking that they know better than the pilots about their own aircraft.

7 Likes
#11

I did a little research
 from that intersection, you’ve got about 7500’ of runway. The specs for 787-8 max weight, high thrust takeoff is 8500’. Similar for 777. Those are the only 2 I checked, but it looks like it is reasonably to back taxi for those big boys. And as Brandon mentioned, I always plan for back taxi, but when it’s busy, I appreciate it when folks don’t!

6 Likes
#12

Thanks,good point,you get exactly what I meant,when is busy and you are flying with a321/737 and below mo need backtaxi

2 Likes
#13

I feel your pain! đŸ˜©

1 Like
#14

I was the approach for this airport and I saw some stupid behavior. Some aircraft did require full length! And all they did was takeoff from the intersection which I remember seeing many aircraft only just make it off the ground in time.

2 Likes
#15

If they require more length, it’s up to the pilot to do so. I’ve done a full flap takeoff before and you lift off the ground like a helicopter. The POH doesn’t account for this when it shows required takeoff distance and because of this, the pilots can usually takeoff earlier than expected. If the pilot can hold on the brakes and reach static RPM, they will increase their takeoff performance and decrease their required runway length. Although the controller might think they know the aircraft’s capabilities, they definitely don’t know the pilot’s abilities and because of this, the responsibility is on the pilots to perform a safe takeoff and climb. If the pilot needs more runway, whether required or not, they can go ahead and use more runway. When cleared to enter the runway, they are cleared to enter the runway. Unfortunately, we don’t have the perfect communication system and because of that, ghosting a pilot for using the runway they were cleared to enter is like ghosting the controller for vectoring a training aircraft flying VFR onto final (best thing I could think of but you get the point). It’s not like the pilot started at runway 27 and went to back taxi all the way to the end of runway 9. Worst case scenario: tell the traffic on final to go around. I’m sure you get the point by now but you should think about what the pilot was thinking before ghosting someone. People learn more from their mistakes than from being punished. That’s why the FAA has safety programs for pilots that have accidents or incidents instead of punishments.

5 Likes
#16

Preaching to the choir, the pilot can back taxi if he thinks it’s necessary
 the point is, a number of aircraft don’t need 7500’ of runway, but many will back taxi a 737, or smaller aircraft, probably because the 747 ahead of them did it.

Also, Nobody will be ghosted for back taxi. When it’s busy, we’ll tell a smaller aircraft to line up and wait, trying to fit him in a small arrival hole. When he back taxis, it may call for a go around which was unnecessary.

The point being made was know your aircraft, and back taxi only when you need to. I can take off safely in a 737 on runway 02 at WMBT without back taxiing!

3 Likes
#17

MaxSez: I like the responses here! “The PIC is the Decision Maker” a sweet sound voiced by experience & competent IFATC’s. GA to “Intersection Departures”, “Short Pattern Finals” to an available short runway rather than the IFATC chosen active Conga Line when a shorty at Pilots discretion is available, The Pilot know his competency and craft wind component better than most IFATC’s. Back Taxi or full rway? what Controler can eyeball an aircraft weigh and length/V1 requirement. Etc. This is a great topic. The responses should be discussed at the next IFATC meeting and a Chief Pilot Video/Tuutorial for the fledglings. BZ All.

(“Trust your Controller” LOL)

5 Likes
#18

@adrianyujs
 MaxSez: “Just GHOST them”. Bad attitude, not the way to think as an IFATC. ATC is a “Service” not a cop shop! Power corrupts!

15 Likes
#19

Thank you Marcello!!
Not just that but pilots please use some half decent initiative. Your plane won’t always need a whole runway to takeoff so attempt intersections if you can. Experiment a little.

1 Like
#20

Goodness me, is this the safety culture that we should be perpetuating? People advocating for ATC to have control they shouldn’t have over pilots? That very same culture of blindly following the controller almost embedded an A320 in a mountain a few months back.

http://avherald.com/h?article=49a600d8&opt=0

3 Likes