Pilots - Be Considerate of Approach Speeds! (w/ Dash 8)

ATC
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Hi guys!

Well, the Dash update is here, and I bet everyone is having a blast spinning through the air with those shiny new turboprops. I am also proud to say that I no longer crash them. ^-^

As controllers, the Dash opens up an exciting new world of possibilities regarding types of traffic to handle. We’ve got our jets, turboprops, military planes, and little props buzzing around, which gives airfields an enriched environment of which has never been seen before.

Speed control has seen a little more of an emergence lately, due to the slow landing speed of the Dash, which presents a few issues for any heavies behind it.

Pilots, when controllers ask you to “maintain best forward speed” when flying the Dash, or issue any sort of speed command that keeps separation in front of any other traffic on final, please be a little considerate and comply. I’m not asking you to pull all the flaps up and land at 235 knots, wiping and spinning out into a fiery explosion, but keeping up your approach speed a little more would be very much appreciated.

I often see other Dashes slow to final landing speed at about 105-115 knots when just intercepting the ILS or way beyond >5 miles of the threshold in front of a 777 who’s doing 150,160, or whatever acceptable speed they’d be going at four miles behind the plane. That would probably result in being told to maintain best forward speed in a semblance to try and maintain separation.

As Heavy Driver and Ard Jan mentioned in Jason Rosewell’s podcast, which I’m discreetly advertising here, turboprops can stop on a dime. Just raise your flaps up a little bit and move in at a little higher speed (130-140 knots is my suggestion if you’ve got heavies behind you) until a few miles from the threshold, and you can then slow all you like to your final landing speed.

If you’re at an empty or slow field with mild traffic, then sure, land as slow as you like. I’d be happy to take tons of pictures and paste them all over Google or something.

Bottom line is this- when you’ve got jets cruising behind you, help us as controllers by doing your best to accommodate your speed in regards to traffic. We won’t always have the luxury of having parallel runways available to switch you or other jets to in order to shuffle you around.

As usual, if you have any questions, feel free to ask!

-Josh

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Well said. I was thinking of this when the update came out of how the Dash’s slow speeds would cause issues. I am always considerate and I keep the best forward approach speed to maintain spacing with aircraft around. I only slow down once right near the runway. Again, great point!

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Picture/Video or didn’t happen.

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Well said. I always to around 140kts - 160kts when on Approach.

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MaxSez: Interesting Comment @StikLover2, remember this comment when I added the Dash-8 POC to the tutorials; " Afterthought, careful on approach at"B’s", the controllers are not used to joining a low speed arrival into high speed traffic. Heads up, don’t be forced into an Overspeed approach by an over enthusiastic Controller in the 8". According to the book as you tip toe down on Approach you must step down your speed via flap and speed settings starting at about 8 mikes. At 58,000 lbs at 3 miles you should be at 115k (+-) flaps 15 and stable. Don’t violate the POC peramitors or you’ll be doing missed approaches or crashing forever. What you have here is not an anomaly, Controllers must adjust to slow movers finally and sequence accordingly for single runway B and feed Dashes and GA’s in and out on the short or parallel runways where available. Fly by the book, never rush it, go missed if uncomfortable or unstable. Leave the stack by requesting a Departure
(direction) and reposition.

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That’s sound advice for fellow pilots. Nice one. ;)

My only concern is people braking to final approach speed ten miles out, quite far away from a couple miles shy of the threshold, as you mentioned. Really makes squeezing the heavies behind a bit hairy when you’re operating with one runway. ;)

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@StikLover2… Max Sez; Your the best of the best Controller Josh. I trust your guidance implicitly Josh. My comments where based on my hundreds of miles of GA flying hours and the problems I encountered when my low speed GA jointed the B circus on both the Adv & PG B circuits. I learned to stay away fron Single B rways most of the time. I noted the speed differentials with the Dash early on and noted there would be a learning curve for both pilots & controllers. Don’t give up on the Dash Pilots it’s a horrible beast to tame on the let down and when you dirty it up. Take her onto Solo like I do and do about 25 repetitive T&G’s. Watch the tape from every angle on those repetitive short finals. Practice makes perfect. (
( Pilots… Time, distance, speed of a advance and workload are critical factors in that last few miles/ minute prior to touchdown. A tower speed or 360 call can be a major distraction when on final. Anticipate, practice such an event!

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Much appreciated, Max. I’m just doing my job like everyone else here. :)

It’s all growing pains, I guess. We’ll have to figure out the best ways to work with what turboprops now have to offer us. Practice makes perfect!

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I intercept the ILS at 200knots 3/4 of the way down I reduce speed to 180knots. And 1/4 away from touch down I reduce my speed dramatically to 135knots.
(Not everyone agrees with this last part): I cut the throttle upon touch down. This way I keep a steady speed and safe distance between aircraft.

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Well, you’re the pilot. Whatever works for you. Just don’t kill my sequencing line and it’ll end on a happy note and free of explicit swearing. ;)

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In the real world, airports often have standardised approach speeds.

For example at London Gatwick, once on the ILS it was maintain 160 knots until 4 miles from touch down. This kept the aircraft spaced out nicely, and meant the turboprops were not holding up the heavies.

If Infinite Flight ever gets ATIS, having something like this would help with arrival congestion.

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If only it would work that perfectly here, eh? ;)

One day soon, ATIS should come back, even though that day may be far, far, far away. We’ll just work with what we got in the meantime- no rush. ^-^

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I know how to work the Dash-8. I’ve nailed it like a piece of wood.

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Maybe an ATC command that can say “maintain XXX knots until X nm/DME”?

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Approach controllers can request specific speed, and this is to be followed just like any other instruction.

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@JQW… Spoken like a budding Advance Controller! The operative term is “Request”. Pilots Safety of flight is paramount even on a Simulator like IF. Don’t form bad habits on a simulator and blindly follow instruction, you as a Pilot “are” the decision maker! The Dash has a unique landing profile unlike any other aircraft in the inventory. If you don’t tip toe down hitting the speed gates as you descend you’ll go tit’s up. The Controller community will eventually learn mixed type sequencing, it’s done everyday in the real world.
Till then if your uncomfortable with an ATC approach instruction in the DASH or feel forced into an Overspeed missed approach situation by an expedite command, punch out of the Q. A typical Q punch out communication is “Correction” "Request Departure (direction). (The correct communication Xmit is “Unable” which unfortunately is presently an invitation to a ghost).

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Or when tower requests “maintain best forward speed”, do just that. Your best forward speed might just be your present speed of 115kts.

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ATC supervisor here.

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MaxSez: Advance Supervisor, So! We never stop learning! And the PIC will always be the “Decision Maker” so sez the FAR! ( Suggest you read my Post “Unable”…) Regards & no disrespect intended.

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Ain’t that the truth. Sometimes that I wonder if I want to be changing my lift profile that close to landing, 4DME is not the place to be changing my lift profile, but I’ll probably be slapped with something if I reply with unable. It’s unfortunate.

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