I’ll join the ping gang!
Open now at LFBO!
I’m landing in an hour on the expert server, will come train at patterns if you’ll still be on :)
Sure! I’ll extend my open time to 22:00Z
@aatogamer sorry, I messed up there. Should’ve given you right downwind
Sorry I disconnected, retrying now
Japan air 855vg
Good transition
Should have issued a Pattern entry and sequence
“Japan Air 855Vg, enter Right downwind 14r, Number 3, traffic to follow is on right downwind”
When you gave me the clearance you didn’t give me a traffic direction. you should also sequence first
When I requested runway change you didn’t issue a Pattern entry
When someone either requests a runway change or are inbound, you have to issue a Pattern entry
Other than that you did pretty good!
Feedback OH-AAT
Transition
- transition altitude can be as low as 3000ft. The formula is pattern altitude + 1000ft. Pattern altitude for this airport is 2000ft, so transition altitude is 3000ft.
1st pattern
- pattern entry should be given before the clearance. Remember: pattern entry → sequence → clearance.
- clearance should be with a traffic direction, since it’s my first pattern on that runway.
2nd pattern
- I never got a clearance for the option (a clearance is required for every pattern). I reported my position on final hoping you’d notice, but had to eventually call a go around.
3rd pattern
- once again, pattern entry before clearance
- this clearance has to have a traffic direction since it’s a runway change. You corrected the already correct instruction.
- as you noticed yourself, right downwind is better here
4th pattern
- I didn’t get a clearance neither on this pattern. This time I just landed to test if you master the exit runway command.
- exit runway was little late, aim for 60-80kts
Focus on:
- give clearances on each pattern and give traffic directions where necessary
- pattern entry → sequence → clearance
- pattern altitudes for different airports
Lastly some small remarks for you regarding other pilots.
- when doing pattern work, pilots are required to follow the assigned sequence and maintain visual separation (both are reportable offense on ES), so commands like “extend downwind” and “adjust speed to follow aircraft ahead” are rather unnecessary in this case. Use sequences to your advantage.
Just a little practice and you’ll get there in no time! Once you get the basics of pattern work down it’ll be easy. Thanks and good luck, hope to see you in IFATC soon!
Hey, had to close because I also have an exam tomorrow that I need to revise lol. But Im open again tomorrow, same time!
HI, thank you for joining and for your amazing feedback. I understand pretty much everything you’ve said! However, I have one big question: so, for every pattern you do, I have to give a pattern entry (enter left/right downwind) AND a clearance (cleared for the option, rwy XX)?
Feedback F-FLCN
- Good job noticing the mistake with the pushback clearance, instead of taxi clearance.
- Departure was good, no mistakes.
- Nice work correcting to clear for the option instead of landing clearance.
- Did not give a pattern entry after the option.
- Good response to the runway change.
Overall, you did well and found your mistakes. More practice will help you improve and avoid making those mistakes in the first place.
Thank you for joining and for your feedback! Looks like I have some work to do on my traffic patterns. I’lI make sure to watch “The Perfect ATC Test” again to really get this down.
Thank you everyone for joining and the feedback. I’ll be opening up again tomorrow, same time 20:00Z, same airport. More working on traffic patterns, since this seems to be my biggest mistaking point. See you!
I might have accidentally written the entirety of pattern work right here, but it is what it is.
Think about it like this.
You have a runway. That runway has a traffic pattern.
You have another runway. That runway has its own traffic pattern.
Pattern entry
You give a pattern entry when an aircraft wants to join one of your patterns (=calls inbound). Then they fly that pattern as long as they’d like, as many touch and gos as they like.
You don’t give another pattern entry until the aircraft wants to enter another pattern (=requests runway change). Then you give them a pattern entry for the other runway.
Sequence
Then you sequence. This lets the aircraft know who they are following. For example: “number 4, traffic to follow is on left base”. That lets the pilot know they’re the 4th to land/touch and go on that runway, and it lets them know where the traffic they’re following is located. Important: sequences are counted per runway, not per downwind. I’ll try to add an example of that at the end. Try to give sequence on the same message as the pattern entry wherever possible.
You also need to resequence the aircraft each time the traffic they’re supposed to follow changes.
Clearance
Lastly, you clear. An aircraft needs a clearance before each touch and go/landing they do.
When you should use traffic directions:
- on takeoff when the aircraft has announced remaining in the pattern
- on clearances after a pattern entry
Example of sequencing per runway
Here me and the other pilot are both coming in for the same runway, 36R. That means the other pilot should be sequenced as “number 2, traffic to follow is on right downwind” and they’ll follow me in for a touch and go.
On this one I’ve requested change to 36L and I’ve been given a pattern entry to “enter right downwind runway 36L”. We are now on the same downwind (right downwind) but on different runways. We are both number 1 for our respective runways. Hence neither of us get a sequence and we both are cleared as number 1.
Now let’s imagine that blue dot is a 3rd pilot, and he’s in the pattern for 36R just like the pilot in the TBM. The 3rd pilot’s going to get a “number 2, traffic to follow is on right downwind” to follow the TBM. That’s because I am not on the same runway as the other 2. Sequences are counted per runway, not per downwind. You can even have pilots for the same runway on both downwinds, and you can separate them with a sequence.
I think that’s pretty much it! Probably not the best explanation of all time but hope it helps! If you have any more questions, let me know!
I don’t think I’ll be able to make any of your sessions, can I be taken off the ping list please.
Ping list please :)
sign me up for the ping list!
Thank you so much for writing this all. You have no idea how much I appreciate your help! This will definitely help to understand this better. I’ll be training again tonight, ready to put your tips to use!
Sure! Thank you for wanting to join though :)
Now open until 21:00Z at KFAT on the TS for some pattern work. Runway changes would be good to practice, as well as inbounds! If you join, feedback after you leave would be much appreciated!
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