Interesting, I’ll take note! Thanks for the tutorial deer!
Way to go Matt! I love the amount of effort and detail that you put into these Tutorials, keep it up!
Great tutorial! I think we all need to have a look at this thread sometimes.
Great tutorial, Deer! I’d also recommend a 270° turn on departure when you’re in a situation where you need to turn left/right in front of a parallel departure corridor.
Example: When departing LAX’s RWY 24L you can make a right turn once beyond the cone (~8NM), continuing the right turn until you’re on a 180° heading. At this point you’re likely at or above 5,000ft, flying directly overhead the airport and clear of conflict, also avoiding a left turn on departure which interferes with RWY 25R departures.
This is a great point. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Its not very often we get to fly directly over our departure airport so adding this procedure to the wealth of information we have to us, will give folks something new to try out.
Well written tutorial, Matt! It’s great to hear from a real-world pilot about different procedures when departing. Another tutorial I have bookmarked, Matt! Keep up the great work!
Corollary to Departure Etiquette
When you have an active tower controller, if the conditions do not call for “pushing tin”, the controller may [in my case, will] avoid this scenario by avoiding simultaneous departures, waiting for the proper separation.
Obviously, if inbounds are not a factor, I alternate runways, but inbounds may change things up a bit.
Whatever the reason, if you are holding short or LUAW while the other runway has an aircraft on roll, there is no need to re-request takeoff, re-send that you’re holding short or lined up, or any reminder at all that you haven’t started your roll yet. I am well aware of your situation.
But controlling the airspace is kind of an OCD thing for me as a controller, and since I can’t seem to keep pilots from making 90 degree turns over the ramp, this is the best method of avoiding incursions.
Just be patient. You will have your turn.
Rage quitting doesn’t bother me. But if you really aren’t going to fly, or if you’re going to start the whole pushback, taxi, queue operation over again at a different airport, just becaise of an extra 20 seconds, that’s your prerogative. But impatience is not Realism™, is it? Everyone is for Realism™ until it slows them down or makes them pay attention. Correct tail light logos, yeah. Not flying through other aircraft? Meh.
Hope nobody minds me bumping this, but I think this needs to be seen, but more people.
It definitely needs to be bumped up. We will eventually start ghosting more and more for this.
I encourage everyone to read this and the one below.
Again, the controller should not have to tell you to extend upwind.
The ATIS says Straight Out Departures for a reason. I should not have to additionally inform you that immediately making a 90 degree turn and crossing straight in front of the aircraft departing on a parallel runway is not a great idea. In fact, it’s a terrible idea.
If you can’t wait more than half a second after your nose gear are off the runway to hit NAV, fly on Casual.
You want Realism™? Okay, here’s some Realism™:
Pay attention to the ATIS and your surroundings or I’m gonna get real with your ability to pilot on the Expert Server.
Realism™ is about more than what liveries park at what gates.
Start applying it to flight.
☝️☝️☝️ He’s right you know…
What about airports like LAX where departing traffic from 24L and 25R both make left hand turns over the ocean? I spoke to a pilot once who told me 24 traffic can’t make a turn until 8,000 where as 25 traffic make the turn at 5,000 (because) 24 is upstream from the 25 runways the level of separation is safe. Not sure how true that is, but I fly constantly from LAX and we always make left turns. Seems 25 traffic make the turn earlier, and 24 traffic flies the entire heading before making a turn… Curious?
The real world procedures differ greatly from those followed in IF. The procedures are crafted based on the practicality of the environment. As for JFK as an example, in real world, aircrafts make turn a lot earlier as soon as they depart. They don’t always get “fly runway heading” from clearance. This is because there are SIDs and STARs designed to avoid intervening the routes of traffic to other airports nearby like LGA. But we almost never get traffic at LGA in Infinite Flight. And not many here follow SIDs and STARs. So, based on the environment that we are, we should do our best not to cause trouble to others and to ourselves. Straight out departure is the perfect choice for IF no matter what airport it is.
Well, I mean, you’re welcome to check out the SIDs for those runways:
But, I don’t expect every IF pilot to know the SIDs for all airports, that’s simply unrealistic. I’m just asking that they have a little situational awareness.
Having a one-waypoint flight plan to a field 90 degrees off runway heading and hitting NAV the second you can slip a piece of paper between the runway and your gear simply doesn’t cut it.
There’s a happy medium there. You don’t have to memorize all the IAPs, but you do have to gain a little altitude before you just cut across the field.
Really helpful. I didn’t know these rules ☺️
Thank you deercrusher, very helpful and. Makes perfect sense
Excellent tutorial. After all the flights and years on the sim, I wasn’t 100% sure on how this part worked exactly. It wasn’t until being reported by ATC on expert yesterday that I had a proper look into it. It’s taken a 7 day ban from expert to learn to learn it the hard way, but it there’s a positive out of it - lesson learned and another bit of knowledge gained. Actually glad I was reported or would never have seen this and just continued engaging NAV too early and not following the proper way.
Just another reminder:
When we put straight out departures only on the ATIS at fields with parallel runways, it isn’t just for fun.
Do not depart and hit NAV on your one-waypoint flight plan at the threshold so you cut directly across the upwind of any other runways you can find.
It’s not a throwaway line. It’s not an optional instruction to follow. There is no such thing on Expert.
If you’re an expert, you’re required to have the bare minimum of situational awareness and follow ATIS. Cutting straight for KLAX from wherever you happen to be in the world doesn’t meet that descriptor.
Everyone is worried about parking at the right gate for the right livery, but take the time to create some separation and deconflict? Who has the time?
Hopefully you, unless you really love TS.