My OEI and Vmd Performance Data Findings

Hello, everyone. After being PRO-less for a couple months, I’m finally back online. Last time I made a topic, I put my focus on a safety aspect: OEI. What is OEI you may ask? OEI stands for One Engine Inoperative. It describes a scenario where you lose one of you engines such as on takeoff.

With OEI, airplanes lose out on some of their flight performance, so we need safeguards to ensure we don’t…fall out of the sky. This is the biggest reason why we have V2 as one of the takeoff speeds. V2 is a speed where your airplane can successfully climb to 35 feet above the runway, and sustain a specific climb gradient to 400 feet AGL. Climb gradients can be classified as two things: gross climb gradients and net climb gradients. Gross climb gradient is the maximum theoretical gradient you can achieve at that speed. For twinjets, trijets, and quadjets, they have gross climb gradients of 2.4%, 2.7%, and 3.0% respectively. Net climb gradients are more practical and account for penalties such as pilot handling, small changes in atmospheric conditions, and other things. They reduce performance by 0.8%, 0.9%, and 1.0% respectively, putting jets at net gradients of 1.6%, 1.8%, and 2.0% respectively (wow I said respectively 3 times).

To account for these gradients, we need to chose V2 speeds that will generate enough lift to satisfy conditions. We will measure this with climb rate in fpm. To do this, we multiply our ground speed by the gradient (e.g. 100 knots GS × 2.4 = 240 fpm). Don’t worry about the net gradient (it’s an error margin essentially). Focus on the gross gradient. Finding the speeds involve trial-and-error as well as precise control over rudder else we’re forced slightly sideways, not creating smooth airflow.

Here’s a few links to help you understand what I’m talking about:

(Idea’s there, but he meant to say GS not TAS)

https://youtu.be/wMsk_FjKjeU?si=9CSOyZrPPH3A69mK

https://youtu.be/D0qIYHnzIDY?si=ir6EEwu7LnutbHcr

I ask anyone who likes or wants to experiment to share their findings here.

Important notes: Don’t bother testing the climb to 35 feet because the majority of aircraft will fail that test (excessive drag). Just worry about the climb gradient past that. Additionally, I decided to use MTOW tests at 100% THR for my tests because I found it easier for me and speeds get egregiously bigger using less power. This would be like a minimum V2 that works better if you have a runway length constraint. Ideally, you’d hit an altitude limit where you can’t satsify the gradient. I notice how aircraft manufacturers publish their v2 as a set number for all conditions under a certain weight. I feel like this number is taken from the worst case scenario (highest height) so a normal scenario would be a guarantee. I haven’t done that…not yet.

My findings on the 737-700 @ ISA, MTOW, flaps 1°, calm conditions:

My notes from Simbrief:

B752 flaps 5°, MTOW ISA MSL: 148 KIAS

B739 flaps 1°, MTOW ISA MSL: 182 KIAS

CRJ2 flaps 8, MTOW ISA MSL: 145 KIAS

A321 flaps 1, MTOW ISA MSL: 183 KIAS

MD-11 flaps 15, MTOW ISA MSL: 179 KIAS

F18? flaps half, MTOW ISA MSL: 117 KIAS? (Don’t ask me how I did this. DON’T)

Additional Info: Vmd (Minimum Drag Speed) is also being tested. Vmd is the speed at which the total drag of an aircraft is at its minimum. Because drag is at its minimum, fuel burn will be at its minimum, and you can maximize your flight time. Your engine isn’t working too much or too little.

Feel free to share any thoughts.

6 Likes

B739 flaps 25°, MTOW ISA MSL: 176 KIAS

B757 flaps 5°, MTOW ISA at ZUDC: 167 KIAS (I find that cool idk about you)

Hi there,

Interesting post. Alas, my only test regarding OEI procedures was (some years back) about simulating an engine loss at cruise in an A319. I had to descend to a given lower altitude cruise, fly at a given IAS (green dot), make an emergency approach and land as if in a strong crosswind. It worked very well.

I know the takeoff appears more complicated in IF. I have not tried yet…

As far as the climb restrictions that come with a chosen V2, I have been looking at what the tables say for the ATR-72, but that’s it.

1 Like

Great work and interesting post. As mentioned in the other thread I am testing the A359 now with OEI just after V1 and I managed to survive now several times, but I want to improve more.

Your post shows, there is much more to consider and understand for me now. I need to work myself into that much more, I understand. It starts with calculating the correct V1 in the first place corresponding to my load, throttle, conditions like temp and so on.

Trying that 27L at EGLL on Casual shows me one thing: For real pilots it is not much time to recognize what happened and immediately taking action to save the aircraft and getting it airborne. Scary situation. Right now I do it with 80% load, N1 80 - 85% and from what I roughly calculated 143kt being V1. 145kt engine 2 out. I definitely need to push throttle to 100% on remaining engine to survive.
Considering the reaction time needed for real pilots to understand the situation, there is not much time for thinking at all. Scary to think about those poor pilots in Louisville who completely lost their left engine in that UPS MD-11.

Big thumbs up and thank you for starting this interesting and teaching thread. I definitely will have more questions.

1 Like

Additionally, you technically don’t have to use full throttle after you lose one engine. If you’re close to sea level with TOGA for example, you’ll have excess thrust, which puts you way above the 2.4% gradient for a twinjet. This is why you can use a FLEX setting on takeoff. However, you can only limit your power to where you meet that 2.4% gradient. Worst case scenario, if you suddenly gain an unexpected tailwind for example, that’s when you make the call to use TOGA thrust to escape the situation.

A333 Flaps 1+F, MTOW ISA at KDEN: 206 KIAS (excuse me?).

Yes, I did get it to stop just using brakes as well.

Please use 34L/16R. You WILL NOT stop if you choose any other runway.

1 Like

I’m just going to give you the universal V2 speed to make it easier

CL35 flaps 10: 172 KIAS

CL35 flaps 20: 140 KIAS

CRJ9 flaps 8: 229 KIAS :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

B77W flaps 5: 282 KIAS :flushed_face: (Nerf that plane ASAP)

1 Like

B739 MTOW Flaps 1° V2: 263 KIAS up to 14,000 FT MSL ISA

That seems way too fast. I think IF should be adding more drag around this area because that’s not something that should be happening.

To shortcut and come to this conclusion, I found Vmd (Minimum Drag Speed) for the flap configuration, which turned out to be 283 KIAS. That’s way over the VFE (Flap Extension Speed) speed of 250 KIAS, so I’d like to know where did the drag went. Then, I penalized Vmd by 20 KIAS because I know we have a V2 speed buffer range of 10-20 KIAS. So, you penalize using the higher of the buffer range.

Rather than me gradually increasing both elevation and v2 to approach the same limit, I think I rather find the optimum speed and climb till I hit the gradient and then stop.

1 Like

DH8D Flaps 5 MTOW: 175 KIAS

DH8D Flaps 10 MTOW: 152 KIAS

DH8D Flaps 15 MTOW: 129 KIAS

A321 Flaps 1 MTOW: 248 KIAS

A321 Flaps 2 MTOW: 216 KIAS

A321 Flaps 3 MTOW: 208 KIAS

E175 Flaps 2 MTOW: 229 KIAS

E175 Flaps 4 MTOW: 181 KIAS

A350-900

Flaps 1: 260 KIAS

Flaps 2: 256 KIAS

Flaps 3: 254 KIAS