My OEI and Vmd Performance Data Findings

Hello, everyone. After being PRO-less for a couple months, I’m finally back online. Last time I made a topic, I put my focus on a safety aspect: OEI. What is OEI you may ask? OEI stands for One Engine Inoperative. It describes a scenario where you lose one of you engines such as on takeoff.

With OEI, airplanes lose out on some of their flight performance, so we need safeguards to ensure we don’t…fall out of the sky. This is the biggest reason why we have V2 as one of the takeoff speeds. V2 is a speed where your airplane can successfully climb to 35 feet above the runway, and sustain a specific climb gradient to 400 feet AGL. Climb gradients can be classified as two things: gross climb gradients and net climb gradients. Gross climb gradient is the maximum theoretical gradient you can achieve at that speed. For twinjets, trijets, and quadjets, they have gross climb gradients of 2.4%, 2.7%, and 3.0% respectively. Net climb gradients are more practical and account for penalties such as pilot handling, small changes in atmospheric conditions, and other things. They reduce performance by 0.8%, 0.9%, and 1.0% respectively, putting jets at net gradients of 1.6%, 1.8%, and 2.0% respectively (wow I said respectively 3 times).

To account for these gradients, we need to chose V2 speeds that will generate enough lift to satisfy conditions. We will measure this with climb rate in fpm. To do this, we multiply our ground speed by the gradient (e.g. 100 knots GS × 2.4 = 240 fpm). Don’t worry about the net gradient (it’s an error margin essentially). Focus on the gross gradient. Finding the speeds involve trial-and-error as well as precise control over rudder else we’re forced slightly sideways, not creating smooth airflow.

Here’s a few links to help you understand what I’m talking about:

(Idea’s there, but he meant to say GS not TAS)

https://youtu.be/wMsk_FjKjeU?si=9CSOyZrPPH3A69mK

https://youtu.be/D0qIYHnzIDY?si=ir6EEwu7LnutbHcr

I ask anyone who likes or wants to experiment to share their findings here.

Important notes: Don’t bother testing the climb to 35 feet because the majority of aircraft will fail that test (excessive drag). Just worry about the climb gradient past that. Additionally, I decided to use MTOW tests at 100% THR for my tests because I found it easier for me and speeds get egregiously bigger using less power. This would be like a minimum V2 that works better if you have a runway length constraint. Ideally, you’d hit an altitude limit where you can’t satsify the gradient. I notice how aircraft manufacturers publish their v2 as a set number for all conditions under a certain weight. I feel like this number is taken from the worst case scenario (highest height) so a normal scenario would be a guarantee. I haven’t done that…not yet.

My findings on the 737-700 @ ISA, MTOW, flaps 1°, calm conditions:

My notes from Simbrief:

B752 flaps 5°, MTOW ISA MSL: 148 KIAS

B739 flaps 1°, MTOW ISA MSL: 182 KIAS

CRJ2 flaps 8, MTOW ISA MSL: 145 KIAS

A321 flaps 1, MTOW ISA MSL: 183 KIAS

MD-11 flaps 15, MTOW ISA MSL: 179 KIAS

F18? flaps half, MTOW ISA MSL: 117 KIAS? (Don’t ask me how I did this. DON’T)

Additional Info: Vmd (Minimum Drag Speed) is also being tested. Vmd is the speed at which the total drag of an aircraft is at its minimum. Because drag is at its minimum, fuel burn will be at its minimum, and you can maximize your flight time. Your engine isn’t working too much or too little.

Feel free to share any thoughts.

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B739 flaps 25°, MTOW ISA MSL: 176 KIAS

B757 flaps 5°, MTOW ISA at ZUDC: 167 KIAS (I find that cool idk about you)

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Hi there,

Interesting post. Alas, my only test regarding OEI procedures was (some years back) about simulating an engine loss at cruise in an A319. I had to descend to a given lower altitude cruise, fly at a given IAS (green dot), make an emergency approach and land as if in a strong crosswind. It worked very well.

I know the takeoff appears more complicated in IF. I have not tried yet…

As far as the climb restrictions that come with a chosen V2, I have been looking at what the tables say for the ATR-72, but that’s it.

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Great work and interesting post. As mentioned in the other thread I am testing the A359 now with OEI just after V1 and I managed to survive now several times, but I want to improve more.

Your post shows, there is much more to consider and understand for me now. I need to work myself into that much more, I understand. It starts with calculating the correct V1 in the first place corresponding to my load, throttle, conditions like temp and so on.

Trying that 27L at EGLL on Casual shows me one thing: For real pilots it is not much time to recognize what happened and immediately taking action to save the aircraft and getting it airborne. Scary situation. Right now I do it with 80% load, N1 80 - 85% and from what I roughly calculated 143kt being V1. 145kt engine 2 out. I definitely need to push throttle to 100% on remaining engine to survive.
Considering the reaction time needed for real pilots to understand the situation, there is not much time for thinking at all. Scary to think about those poor pilots in Louisville who completely lost their left engine in that UPS MD-11.

Big thumbs up and thank you for starting this interesting and teaching thread. I definitely will have more questions.

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Additionally, you technically don’t have to use full throttle after you lose one engine. If you’re close to sea level with TOGA for example, you’ll have excess thrust, which puts you way above the 2.4% gradient for a twinjet. This is why you can use a FLEX setting on takeoff. However, you can only limit your power to where you meet that 2.4% gradient. Worst case scenario, if you suddenly gain an unexpected tailwind for example, that’s when you make the call to use TOGA thrust to escape the situation.

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A333 Flaps 1+F, MTOW ISA at KDEN: 206 KIAS (excuse me?).

Yes, I did get it to stop just using brakes as well.

Please use 34L/16R. You WILL NOT stop if you choose any other runway.

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I’m just going to give you the universal V2 speed to make it easier

CL35 flaps 10: 182 KIAS

CL35 flaps 20: 150 KIAS

CRJ9 flaps 8: 239 KIAS :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

B77W flaps 5: 292 KIAS :flushed_face: (Nerf that plane ASAP)

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B739 MTOW Flaps 1° V2: 263 KIAS up to 14,000 FT MSL ISA

That seems way too fast. I think IF should be adding more drag around this area because that’s not something that should be happening.

To shortcut and come to this conclusion, I found Vmd (Minimum Drag Speed) for the flap configuration, which turned out to be 283 KIAS. That’s way over the VFE (Flap Extension Speed) speed of 250 KIAS, so I’d like to know where did the drag went. Then, I penalized Vmd by 20 [Now 10] KIAS because I know we have a V2 speed buffer range of 10-20 KIAS. So, you penalize using the higher of the buffer range [disregard, now penalized by 10].

Rather than me gradually increasing both elevation and v2 to approach the same limit, I think I rather find the optimum speed and climb till I hit the gradient and then stop.

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DH8D Flaps 0 MTOW: 244 KIAS

DH8D Flaps 5 MTOW: 185 KIAS

DH8D Flaps 10 MTOW: 162 KIAS

DH8D Flaps 15 MTOW: 139 KIAS

DH8F Flaps 35 MTOW: 120 KIAS

[V2 Speeds Given]

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Here’s the A321 speeds:

FLAPS 0 MTOW VMD: 346 KIAS
FLAPS 1 MTOW VMD: 268 KIAS
FLAPS 2 MTOW VMD: 234 KIAS
FLAPS 3 MTOW VMD: 224 KIAS
FLAPS FULL MTOW VMD: 219 KIAS

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Here’s the E175

FLAPS 0/1 MTOW VMD: 251 KIAS

FLAPS 2 MTOW VMD: 249 KIAS

FLAPS 3/4/5 MTOW VMD: 203 KIAS

FLAPS FULL MTOW VMD: 200 KIAS

A350-900

Flaps 0 & 1: 284 KIAS

Flaps 1+F: 271 KIAS

Flaps 2: 266 KIAS

Flaps 3: 264 KIAS

Flaps Full: 263 KIAS

[Vmd speeds given]

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A319-100:

FLAPS 0 MTOW VMD: 276 KIAS
FLAPS 1 MTOW VMD: 267 KIAS
FLAPS 2 MTOW VMD: 250 KIAS
FLAPS 3 MTOW VMD: 246 KIAS
FLAPS FULL MTOW VMD: 213 KIAS

[V2 is Vmd - 10 KIAS]

10% Load 737-900 Flaps 1: 189 KIAS…I don’t know what to say.

If you’re interested, go to OTHH, set temp to ISA, and PWR/ N1 to 60%/ 70%N1 and you’ll have the funniest takeoff you’ve ever seen. I’m baffled by how you’re even able to do this in the sim.

Update: In regards to V2 speeds, I will now penalize Vmd by 10 KIAS instead of 20. Doing some more research, it seems V2+10 KIAS will give you the better angle of climb, while V2+20 gives you the better rate of climb.

MD-11:

Flaps 0 & 1: 322 KIAS (Vmd is 332 KIAS)

Flaps 10: 309 KIAS (Vmd is 319 KIAS)

Flaps 15: 249 (Vmd is 259 KIAS)

Flaps 28: 224 KIAS (Vmd is 234 KIAS)

Flaps 35: 209 KIAS (Vmd is 219 KIAS)

Flaps 50: 176 KIAS (Vmd is 186 KIAS)

Do not use Flaps 50 for departure at MTOW. Not enough climb performance.

Boeing 757:

Flaps 1: N/A (yes, this is a valid flap configuration. Most companies won’t use it, and they will set flaps 5 at the minimum)

Flaps 5: 276 KIAS (Vmd at config. is 286 KIAS)

Flaps 15: (N/A, but looking horrible so far for testing)

Flaps 20: N/A (will report back)

I feel really uncomfortable after seeing the data for the A380. I don’t think I want to fly it anymore. Here is the data:

Flaps 0/1/1+F Vmd: 329 KIAS

Flaps 2 Vmd: 320 KIAS

Flaps 3 Vmd: 308 KIAS

Flaps Full Vmd: 307 KIAS

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Merry Christmas, everyone :santa_claus::snowman: :christmas_tree: :wrapped_gift:! My gift to you may not seem significant, but it’s the gift of knowledge. I’ve done testing on the A321 and provided a more extensive case. Take it as you will.

FLAPS 0 MTOW VMD: 346 KIAS
FLAPS 1 MTOW VMD: 268 KIAS
FLAPS 2 MTOW VMD: 234 KIAS
FLAPS 3 MTOW VMD: 224 KIAS
FLAPS FULL MTOW VMD: 219 KIAS

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B78X:

FLAPS 0/1 MTOW VMD: 342 KIAS
FLAPS 5 MTOW VMD: 341 KIAS
FLAPS 15 MTOW VMD: 290 KIAS
FLAPS 20 MTOW VMD: 273 KIAS
FLAPS 25 MTOW VMD: 233 KIAS
FLAPS 30 MTOW VMD: 229 KIAS

I did do some testing with flaps 30. You need at least 73% PWR (91% N1) if you want to satisfy OEI with that configuration. You will also need close to 15,000 to 17,000 feet of runway.

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I have updated the Embraer E175. This thing’s a beast in a clean configuration. Using Vmd, you can fly most efficiently at 36,000 feet, Mach 0.81, at MTOW, with no problems.

FLAPS 0/1 MTOW VMD: 251 KIAS
FLAPS 2 MTOW VMD: 249 KIAS
FLAPS 3/4/5 MTOW VMD: 203 KIAS
FLAPS FULL MTOW VMD: 200 KIAS

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Boeing 767-300ER:

FLAPS 0 MTOW VMD: 245 KIAS
FLAPS 1 MTOW VMD: 241 KIAS
FLAPS 5 MTOW VMD: 237 KIAS
FLAPS 15 MTOW VMD: 214 KIAS
FLAPS 20 MTOW VMD: 199 KIAS
FLAPS 25 MTOW VMD: 191 KIAS
FLAPS 30 MTOW VMD: 184 KIAS

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