More ATC Phrases?

ATC
1

The current ATC phrases work well, but I feel there is a need for more. For example:

An aircraft enters busy airspace flying at a ridiculous speed, say 400kn, without permission, potentially endangering others. The controller can’t do anything except report a speed violation and give an on guard warning.

I think there’s a need for more commands, such as:

[Callsign] you are flying dangerously in a busy airspace, divert your course immediatley.

[Callsign] Reduce speed immediatley, danger present.

What do you all think?

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I do not really know… The word “danger” overall sounds a little bit too threatening for my specific taste.

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I like this idea, especially on TS1.

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We already have this command, •pleas mantain minimal speed• And we(IFATC) with the support of our manager/mods/devs are always working on that.[quote=“Declan_OHara, post:1, topic:110508”]
Callsign] Reduce speed immediatley, danger present.
[/quote]

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Just to be clear, because this is a common misconception I’ve seen before:

ATC cannot give violations. All violations are computer generated.

(You may know this, but I was once told that ATC gave someone 6 violations out of spite, which is impossible.)

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But ATC can report violations, on the ATC map, by clicking on said aircraft, and reporting from there.

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That’s a ghosting. Not a violation. They are different.

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@Tim_B Thank you for that enlightenment, always appreciated.

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@MarcelloM But that doesn’t give a direct instruction notifying of iminent danger, though I see where you are coming from.

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Post/List your suggestions here :)

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@Kevin Thank you! :)

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12

It depends what altitude you’re at: 400kts at FL250 is perfectly normal - in fact you could even expect to be going faster - however 400kts at FL100 isn’t normal…

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@AtomicHerbster4 Yes of course, there are restrictions for a reason.

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What I’m saying is that this would be quite difficult to implement as there are different aircraft with varying speed ranges, as well as winds so saying xxxkts plus gives you an ATC warning would be tricky - furthermore leaving the decision in the controller’s hands is a bad idea because only the pilot knows what’s best for his/hers aircraft.

However if they’re going at a stupid speed (i.e. 700kts for no valid reason, then yes, they deserve reporting. I think the current system we have is fine to be honest and works quite well with the report button…

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The system we have now works and is well, but isn’t the most realistic it could be, which is the point I am trying to put across here. There is nothing wrong with the current system as you say, but what I am saying is that we could have a more realistic system.

I realise the given impracticalities surrounding this, but with some refinement I could see it working.

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MaxSez: As I recall the airspace ceiling above any class airport has been set by FDS at 050AGL (5000 feet above ground level) This apparently is not recognized widely since it has not been publicly publish since or enforced for some time. Thus above 5000’ transiting controlled airspace above 5000’ to 10,000’ at +- 250IAS, without a transition request is perfectly legal. Above 10 grand speed is limited by airframe limits as indicated by the Red Tick on the speed tape. Approach Challenges should only be issued to those aircraft Filed for the Approach Controllers Airfield specific operating area, Close in speeders should be placed in a holding pattern and directed to reduce speed for safety sake as a first resort, Ghosting is the last resort. (Remember always close out your Flight Filing, intermediate Airfield (s) defined as waypoints and the final Destination airport clearly defined as the last entry)

(@Declan_OHara, pls note)

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Thanks for that, it gave an interesting and informative read.

I personally have never heard of this, but now I know of it I will read up further on it.

Thank you

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@Declan_OHara The. FAA AIM is the Bible plus the " Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge". Covers everything in layman language, both are free down loads from faa.gov. Max

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Ah I never thought to see the FAA website, I’m British and usually use the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) website.

Thanks for the heads up, appreciated.

Declan

edit Is it the 2014 edition for the AIM? @Maxmustang

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20

I personally don’t think we need either of these because tower and all radar facilities can issue speed commands and radar facilities can tell you specific speeds that you need to maintain. If they don’t slow down then we send a please follow instructions command and ghost or just ghost without warning if it’s busy. Tower and radar facilities can also issue 360s and radar facilities can give vectors and issue holding patterns. I just don’t think we need this currently to clutter up our command lists. Best of luck for the future though!

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