I specifically mentioned CES and CSN here, and NOT Hainan or any other airline that has zero livery, because they are also the biggest fleets in the world. They should be in the sim not just because of diversity, but also because of shear fleet size.
Mentally prepares to get reported again
The problem is that the IF community would rather see aircraft that feature them (So america/europe/oceania). The lack of Chinese players is well I will not go there. But as @Captainflight said the IF Devs base their choices off IFC (For the most part) so since there aren’t as many people actually using them, they don’t do it. It doesn’t matter if they have big fleets, its the fact that not many people use them. And IF Devs don’t want to pour time into a livery very little people use.
Again I would like to stress that “not many people use them” is a result from, not a reason for, the lack of some iconic livery. If this is going to be a reason then we will enter a vicious cycle.
Also, China is a huge but hidden market to explore. Many Chinese players have little to none access to social media like FB, ins and IFC, but they do spend a lot of time on IF itself. Since they can’t speak in social media, a majority of them choose to shout out their feedbacks and requests in the comment section of App Store. However they are using Chinese and the devs are replying in English so I doubt if their opinions are heard.
I took some screenshots of those comments and in case you can’t understand I will translate them:
I suggest that more Chinese liveries to be added, such as Hainan Airlines and Sichuan Airlines.
Please rework the 330 and 787 and add more Chinese liveries. Thanks!
I wish the devs can add more Chinese liveries so that we can have more choices. Nothing is more joyful than watching a perfect aircraft in flight.
We need more Chinese liveries, at least more China Eastern ones, thanks!
For them, it’s the only way to say something to the devs. Believe it or not, these are indeed customer feedbacks. They convey the general demand of Chinese players: ADD MORE CN LIVERIES. That’s it. Satisfying customers means more profit. If those needs are met, the door to a huge market opens. The devs won’t regret it.
That’s my two cents :)
How are you so sure? Do you assume this because you don’t see a lot of Chinese players I’m certain more people would be flying a China Eastern, China Southern or a Hainan Airlines 737 livery rather than all 5 Southwest ones. No point in trying to defend the devs here mate because this topic is trying to convey that some countries’ carriers are under-represented and completely neglected
Also I hate it when people use the excuse it’s to cater for the majority’. It’s not a valid argument at all whatsoever. I am a Polish person myself yet I barely ever fly the LOT Polish Airlines 737-800 and 787-8 that we have in IF. I also know a lot of people who do the same. It’s because some of us prefer exploring the world instead of constantly restricting ourselves to flying in only one region which is what a lot of people seem to be doing in this community sadly. I mean that’s literally the whole point of global. I NEVER fly within USA and recently I even stopped flying in Europe (my home continent) because other places like South America, Mexico and Africa are so much better and interesting.
To respond to your points: @Igor_M
(How are you so sure?) Im so sure because of this: Message to devs: Heavy under-representation of Chinese fleets
(Do you assume xyz?) No because I can pull up the IF API and see that there is very few flights in china relative to the USA, Europe area, etc.
(Majority argument) Well if its a bad argument why don’t we see more votes for Chinese Aircraft Liveries?
To respond to your points: @AlphaSeven
(Feature sys is broke) No its not, they cater to the majority who want it, because they are the majority means obviously they get their choice, that’s literally the definition of voting. Its not hard to get the point that if the majority of people want the option, then they will get it as opposed to the minority of people who want the other option.
(Bias) Evidence please, Frontier is an exception, that was ridiculous.
To sum up your argument on feature sys, if you want change you need to provide what you would like to see not just “it needs to change” that’s not helpful
Catering to a minority as of right now is not how FDS make money, IFC is surprisingly not blocked in china (Depends on city but for most part no) so the argument “there is a community that’s not represented on IFC due to government” doesn’t work. FDS are people too, they have families to feed, and they need salaries so they need money.
Of course, i didnt mean to invalidate your point, they are some of the biggest airlines in the world, and thus need representation more akin to idk Delta, United etc…
I just meant to say that the overarching theme of this topic, underrepresentation of various regions in IF, is much more widespread than just China
Yes of course @FlightGT satisfying customers means more money, but you have to think about FDS, and the economic situation of China, IF devs would much rather satisfy the needs of the majority and gain support there than help the minority, also the average wage In china doesn’t allow for high expense things such as phones able to run IF (well), because some people do doesn’t mean its a “massive market”
If you use the argument of, I don’t fly in my area, I can say I do, that instantly levels the argument, you need to use actual data to prove that.
Again, How are you so sure about this? That’s a huge bias against Chinese I must say. In various Chinese IF forums I see players using devices which are among the top of the Device compatibility thread.
Also, your “actual data” of player distribution is, unfortunately, inaccurate, as very few people visit infiniteflight.com in China, let alone finishing the navigraph survey. After all, It’s the money for purchase and subscription that goes into the devs’ pocket for them to feed their families, not social media accounts right? As long as there are people who purchased or subscribed, they need to be counted as customers, regardless of whether they visit if. com or have an IFC account.
Simple question to answer, take a look at those replies:
Its public knowledge… in reference to wage. And congratulations you’ve given me exactly my point, the only people you see are those with high end devices so the actual expected market is not nearly as large. Right but saying they have there own forum without actually mentioning what magical forum you are speaking of, is not helpful
Just to name a few, those magical forums are: tieba.baidu.com which is like the IFC, bilibili.com which is similar to youtube, and a recently founded aviation24.net which is created by some fellow Chinese IFC members.
Besides, not everyone in your country uses a high-end device, right?
Yes, but china has a very low average wage, im talking $15,000/year (AUD) so a phone at all is not a priority for most people let alone a $100/year subscription
Honestly, you don’t need a very high-end device to run IF (unless you pursue extreme graphic). I personally uses iPhone 6SP, which now only costs 1099 yuan (about $230AUD).
If you’ve been in China once, you’ll find how ridiculous this point is.
Your not using any actual data so stop being hypocritical. You’re just assuming stuff without looking at figures
What exactly am I assuming? Google exists in reference to wages you know?
I think he is trying to get at how you mentioned a phone is not a priority for those living in China- it’s quite the opposite actually if you’ve ever been there.
Well things are going off topic here … I think we should stop for a while or this will be closed
Hi all! I will first direct everyone reading this to the topic about B757 liveries. It also applies to all our aircraft, in particular the newer ones where we have paid more attention to livery diversity. You can find it here:
Whilst I have everyone’s attention, I’ll happily answer a few queries brought up here:
The airlines people fly the most are the most common airlines you will see added again. Most of our users are from North America, so we actually hugely over-represent the rest of the world in our livery diversity despite this.
Yes, I agree we could have more Chinese liveries. This is something that has been discussed before. However, we have quite a few Chinese airlines already, just not with many variants of the aircraft they fly. The CRJ has a good example of a Chinese airline that no-one flies, but we added after a call for diversity. The B757 will have 2 Chinese airlines represented to help boost this.
We have many Chinese liveries in comparison to other countries. There is more underrepresentation of nations in South America and Africa, with many countries not having an airline represented at all. We want to represent:
- a) Our core user base
- b) As many nations as possible
As always, thanks for the feedback and we will take it on board!