MaxSundaySermon: “Farming FltTime/XP” Your Moral Dilemma!


I read a Topic this week (Stuck at Grade 3) that crossed my eyes and cause me to reflect on the lack of self discipline and flawed potty training of some of are more accomplished members. The author asked for advise on how to Improve his path of matriculation and an ez-route to advancement. Up jumped the 👿, the Duty Experts Provided a continual stream of How To; “Card Sharp”the system.

“FARMING” was the standard responce of the many Usual Suspect. They opened their Trick Bag and Regurgitated how to beat the IF FlrHour/Xp System “in writing”!

I reflected back on my shock that night and could not understand why the parental moral lesson not to lie or cheat has been lost to our Younger generations. Is it nurture or nature?

The following morning I dug thru my Library and retrieved an old topic that I had posted years ago, when Farming was called “Grinding”, with a bit of editing, Here it is;

2016 MaxSez; Grinding/Farming Topic:

“MaxSez: I’ve read a lot of Topic on this Forum, only a few have made me want to vomit! I could not believe me eye when I stumbled on the Questions on “XP GRINDING”!

Here’s my take on these impure thought & those multiple Supportive Commenters. They gave aid and encouragement to the easily influenced do’er;

“True Aviator/Gammers are moral men & woman! They don’t abide cheaters, liars, charlatans or phonies. “Grinding is Cheating! “…

Grinding , in my opinion is not the only way to get on the Leader Board or Big Kid Server now, it’s because of the abominable 90 day rule which decuments your hard earned efforts daily, not a Just Cause!

So the Suspects advocate beating the system by their short eye’d method! Be a scoundrel and a Grinder, alluding to the fact that Everybody Body does “It”is a “Bald Face Lie”!

Grinder numbers are an intentional FRAUD and indicate one’s weak amoral, discombobulated mental process, lack of integrity & low self esteem! It’s Dishonorable, Do they &you know the meaning of the that word?

It had to be said, take it or leave it, the truth hurts!” Amen…EndSermon…

( Errata; Back in the day, when Peer Pressure flurried here, that’s before IF Forum got PC, there was Honor! The old gang of Nobel Men used the “Report User” Button frequently to aid the “Watchers”!
“I exclaim nay Demand in parting! “Revive dat “Report Button”; Correct the Count Algorithm! On demeaner and honesty Watch how quickly a Button Push & Peer Pressure; an honest assessment can reshapes the IF Universe!”)

Yes this is the real END till next time! Beep Beep, that it Folks…



Facts right here.

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Oh Max, I’m going to have to disagree with you here.

I don’t know why you think ‘grinding’ or ‘farming’ landings is “Intentional FRAUD”. The term “grinding landings” simply means pilots putting in the work and effort to get many landings, aka doing pattern work. Where’s the “FRAUD” in that?

Although, I do agree with your rant on the 90-day rule. I hate to see all my landings disappear on a daily basis 😡


Just because you can do 100 landings in a XCub at KEDW without ATC and get access to the Expert Server, doesn’t make you a better pilot. You become a better pilot by learning ATC and how to fly a plane. The latter yes, you can learn that by flying a million patterns at some airfield, but that’s only a part of your this simulator. You learn through flights, proper planning, and knowledge about ATC and aviation rules. The best pilots aren’t those who can make the most landings, but the ones who know how to behave around other people and other planes.


Personally, I would rather be a grade 3 who is conversant with the SOPs within the sim rather than one who has a green tag but doesn’t know basic airmanship.

There should be a line between earning more landings and gaining more exposure via full flights.

Well said @emil


And that’s what annoys me when people suggest raising the Expert Server to Grade 4 minimum, it doesn’t make you a worse pilot to be grade 3. (Granted I’m Grade 4 right now). Landings is only a part of the picture.


I believe he is implying that the grading system discourage people from actually becoming better fliers but instead grinding just for the sake of grades due to the fact that a large component of the grading system is based on how many landings you have, which ultimately defeats the point of IF, which is to learn and practice realistic procedures in order to exploit IF to its full potential.

He’s just providing context here, nothing bad.

This is what I believe is the flaw with the grading system, it isn’t based on how well you behave on ES/TS or how well you adhere to realistic procedures, it’s merely based on the amount of landings you have, especially in 90 days. What this does is that it provides a misleading indicator of how advanced a user is, because as he has implied, people resort to “farming”/grinding to achieve a higher grade instead of actually practicing realism, whilst there are many players that do indeed practice realistic procedures and such but don’t possess a high grade, which means the grading system has effectively failed to measure ones “worth” as a user.


I did some ‘farming’ a few days ago at Newcastle and generally saying, it really doesn’t improve piloting skills/familiarity with ATC(well since this is mostly done in the casual server). In my opinion, just like the way people complain about bureaucracy in governments, this is an unneeded methodology to prove that one deserves to fly in the Expert Server.

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It really doesn’t…I did my farming a year ago at KDEN just by following runways in a clockwise direction then slamming a TBM onto a runway for like 5 seconds before taking off. Did I get Grade 4 (subsequently 5)? Yeah. Did it make me a better flier? Nope. Is it a reliable indicator of my aptitude for flying and realism? Definitely not.


As always, THANK YOU Max for your honesty.


The thing to understand is that XP means nothing.

I’ve seen prominent IFC members with grade 5 and 1 million + XP and yet they still call inbound incorrectly and use auto land to complete their 13 hour flights.

At the end of the day, XP/flight time means absolutely nothing, so I see no problem with farming it… it just reflects poorly on the farmer.


I completely agree with @Will_A. Too many times have I seen Grade 5’s with over 2 million XP and just as many violations. You’ll also notice that those types of players tend to stick together. They’ll gather at a small airport, do what they think is ‘pattern work’ just to maintain their required flights and maintain their grade. I’m grade 5, but only have ~800K XP. Yeah, big XP numbers may look ‘cool’, but I can guarantee the quality of piloting skills of those sorts are more often than not is non-existent. Again, that is only my opinion based on what I’ve seen first hand.

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So I’m a grade 3 right now and it took me a while to get to the ES and once I did I fell in love with it. I’m sure that if the minimum grade for the ES was raised to grade 4 many people would just go on farming to get back in. The best course of action to improve the quality of pilots on the ES would probably be to change the grading system. Landings are the easiest thing to quantify but if we were to come up with something quantifiable and easily measurable that actually shows improvements in pilots then we can ensure a better experience on the ES


Agreed. “It takes brains to fly, and hands to land” - Emil Broe, 2020


MaxSez: Swell Responses… They separate the Men from the Egotists, Millennials, No Nothing Gammers Bloviators, Duty Experts and some Regulalist! Keep on Farming Kiddo’s “We the Few, The Finest got your Number! So sayith the Mature Majority here.
Semper Fi, MadMax


@The_Real_Plane_Spott. MaxSez: Ya it’s a good thing that’s why I Wrote it it, Stay in context pls.

@Maxmustang audacia pro muro et scuto opus

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@Navy315 MaxSez, Yes I was a Rebellious Captain of Marines in the Naval Service once “I came, I saw & I conquered”… “Never Give Up the Ship!
Aye Aye, Sir, Gangway, Max

“audacia pro muro et scuto opus” Phrase Cornelis Jol,[4] in a bid to rally his rebellious captains to fight and conquer the Spanish treasure fleet in 1638.

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@Maxmustang cygnus inter anates comparatively to those which you speak of.

@Navy315 MaxSez: “Swans” nay Gator’s & Prey!!,
Being an Alter-boy comes in handy , Hail Caesar.