A Recent Change introduced the “Holding Pattern”. I have yet to see it utilized by IFATC! It’s time to bring efficiency and expedited handling to that Dinosaur Conga Line procedure so beloved by IF Approach Controlers. Let’s get on with it; Stack’em, bring them in one at a time, lowest first. SID’s & Stars next.
The stacks over Heathrow look so good
There are two problems with this.
First: sadly, most pilots don’t know how to properly fly a hold, which could cause conflicts. They often make turns which are way too wide, fly at the wrong altitude, and exit the pattern before instructed to.
Second: it’s less efficient during times of moderate and light traffic. By the time they enter the hold and fly a few circuits, they probably could have already been vectored to their destination. We only like to use holds during heavy traffic time or when a plane needs to lose a lot of altitude. Also, we can’t see the holds on the screen, so it would get confusing if we stacked everyone.
@Nicholas_L. Max Sez; Spoken like a true IF Controller. Most IF Approach Controllers don’t know how to work a Hold Pattern either. Plus the hold points need to be displayed on the chart, then you “can see’em” You can’t introduce a new procedure without all the tools! Low flow periods are ideal for learning.Let’s all learn together shall we. (I note all the likes where by controllers, appears you guys don’t like Change to your rote procedures! Changes is Good!) Just Say’n,
Let’s weed out the Players from the Peanuts shall we. Stack or no stack, Hobsons Choice.
Trust me, all approach controllers know how to use holds; they’re part of our test. Especially until we can see holds on the screen, it’s just not practical to stack them. We almost always only use holds when there is high traffic to allow single runway airport controllers to depart aircraft.
@Nicholas_L. MaxSez: “Trust Me” that’s what he said! LOL. I only have a “Few” hours Nick, “Trust Me” I’ve never seen a “Holding Stack” used on any server. A random loose flyer maybe when the mood struck. I assure you the first time I see a Stack feeding a bizey “B” and not a Conga Line I’ll send a screen shot and a BZ Flag hoist to all concerned.
(Clears throat) I think I liked the original…just sayin
I don’t doubt that you haven’t seen stack on Expert. We simply don’t use them because they are not practical when we could use our “conga line.”
@Maxmustang you have motivated me to start practicing to become a qualified approach controller.
@Nicholas_L… “We”! Believe the decision to fully implement the “Holding Pattern” Proceedure is well above your present status. Respect your opinion and position however like ATIS I’ll continue pressing this initiative until it is implemented. It’s a Good Thing. This is my last response on our thread. Max
I think ATC also needs to see the holding points. Then we know who is following it and who isn’t. Also, being able to assign other headings than the 180-360 holding.
What do you mean by that?
Then you need to fly more, I had three holding patterns with 4-5 aircraft in each one. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you tbh
@Mats_Edvin_Aaro. MaxSez: as for “What do you mean”. My opinion; “Some IFATC are the most opinionated, defensive and self aggrandizing group its been my displeasure to deal with in the last few years”. In general individually there standard answer is No, you can’ get there from here or a Ghost. As to your contribution and Stacking; I’ll probably never observe you in action. The Expert Server is presently staffed at 14% that is 1 Tower in multiple regions. I follow the status of Expert Staffing it falls in the 25% range per single Region on average weekly. At that rate to locate you would be like finding a needle in a hay stack. If you Stack be a good fellow, pass it on and lead the way. Just Sayin.
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