MaxProcedure! "WHY; No Intersection Departures Accepted"!

MaxSez: Tyler’s Tutorial “Intersection Departures” is a fine piece of work! It begins “Intersection Runway Departures can be pretty intimidating for new tower controllers!” It appears both TS-1 and Expert Controllers have been “intimidated”! They just ignore the request or send “No Intersection Departures Accepted”. I drive a Caravan regularly or another of the inventories reciprocators, GA’s, Dash or the trusty C-130. They don’t need 8/10,000 feet to get their Trash off the ground. In the last week and on many other occasions I’ve been denied an intersection Go repeatedly, Bad JuJu!

Today driving a FedEx Caravan I stared out on TS-1 at the Springs “No intersection go”!
I punched out. I expected a better reception on the Expert, Aspin was open so off I went. Half a dozen aircraft in the airspace. 2 at the threshold, 1 rolling on the tarmac and inbound on base.
I’m parked center field, request taxi to the active, roll to the center field intersection hold for 5. Tower give me a hold short, I sit and wait for an arrival, a departure then the Controller has the audacity to send “No Intersection Departures”, the Gaul!

As far as I’m concerned if an aircraft in a Pilots view is capable of launching from an intersection he or her’s judgement shouldn’t be questioned. Controllers are not expected to be informed on the performance characteristics of the inventory. Intersection launches are a flow control tool they expedite. Controllers should approve all intersection Departures unless a safety of flight issue is evident. Additionally, the Comm Menu should be revised forthwith!
It should include a Pilots request for an intersection departure/taxi request. What say you members?

GA All the way!

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When I was an IFATC, I tried to accommodate intersection departures, but would deny them if there was a takeoff line. It gets harder when you are managing GA and jets on the same runway, because ATC would also have to consider that GA aircraft go much slower than jets.

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@Reedgreat. MaxSez: Can’t agree with the denial if there’s a threshold line up and inbounds. The whine about jumping the line is specious! There’s always sufficient time between arrivals and departures to slip in a intersection go. Turn’em , Burn’em and if they doddle Ghost them!

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Its one of the important ATC commands that is missing from the menus. I understand that we are limited in the amount of responses and options that can be added due to space, however this as well as option to back taxi are two that need to be considered.

I am mainly a “trash hauler” guy and only fly about 20% of time in GA aircraft, however I think once global is out that will swap round so I can go and explore the IF Virtual world a bit more. Of course that does mean most likely to be flying out of smaller fields without ATC cover so that will be less of an issues anyway…

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Exactly. It can be a really useful command if used correctly. I was in Aspen with you and saw how you were surrounded by jets.

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Hi Max,

As you already know you should fly expert for a realistic expirience. If you have a concern about an IFATC controller or questions about why they do what they do just pm that spacific controller and/or an ATC Supervisor.

I don’t believe it’s fair to overgeneralize what 1 IFATC did at one particular moment as a problem worth having this conversation about. You and I don’t know why he/she did what they did. So why not just pm him or her?

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Aspen is a different situation. If you were close to center field at the intersection I imagine you were on, then you’d be blocking the exit from jets landing the opposite direction. It’s one of the few times where the “no intersection” command would be acceptable. Taking it in context is key.

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@JoshFly8… MaxSez: Expected the IFATC Defenders to jump right in. As for the exit, I was far enough back from the hold line to allow an exit by a C-5! This was not my first rodeo!
I don’t have the ability to understand the operation of the Controllers mind thus I just utilized my most recent example of the “perpetual denial”. You know what they say about Opinions!
Warm Regards.

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@Shawn_Coleman… Thank for your opinion! As I said to Josh this is not my first rodeo! In this case I was generalizing and I’ll use Expert as an example as the notion strikes with no disrespect intended. In my opinion seems there’s some very thin skins among the. “Specialist”, circle the wagons much Phil…
(Be please to discuss this by PM if you choose) Regards

I think he’s referring to why there’s know intersection departures. Nothing too do with a probelm controller with IFATC. @Maxmustang can correct me if I’m wrong

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We do allow interesection departures as Josh states. Max is asking why there was no intersection departures allowed during his session at a particular airport on the expert server. For that he would need to pm that Controller.

None of us can speculate (other than Officers, Supervisors, and Mods,) as to how that occurred.

Max, ’

If we could get a direct answer to your question about why you were denied that intersection departure why not try to obtain it? I believe this a teachable moment and if the facts are as you put them then we should make every effort to get to the bottom of it. I don’t believe in beating around the bush. If there is a problem we should address it and move on. I don’t know what you meant by your last sentence but ill ignore it.

In my opinion (we all know what they say about those) it seems like a complaint. lets address it and move on.

@Shawn_Coleman… Obviously your struck on the KASE example. I had no problem with “We” or the Controller at KASE, his call, I don’t read minds. If t where a problem I know the drill, I call them the way I see them, no Controller issue here, I repeat just a recent example. The bottom line thrust of this Topic is Flow control and the value of the Intersection Departure period.
(I note your from Jersey, the attitude shows being from Philly I recognize the Pine Barrrens’ approach, LOL, have a nice day). Regards

(If you choose to discuss this further PM me, my second request!)

Maybe the problem is the GA communities lack of request for intersection departures. I personally have only requested such a departure once, and was cleared with little traffic, but I rarely if ever hear of anyone requesting on a regular or frequent basis and never during peak times. If the GA community would put it out there more often maybe the more confident controllers would bite or it would at least prove that this is wanted request in the name of efficiency and realism. Most certainly it wouldn’t be a regular approval but it would season the vets and allow the newbies a chance to overcome fears of managing multiple in/outbound traffic with different approach and departure scenarios under their control.

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I’ve only been able to do an intersecting dep when on Verbal ATC ON A DIscord channel. using real ground charts and all.

Ok,

Fare enough I was under the impression that this event had actually occurred and wasn’t an example:

you just said:

And in reality I am just trying to figure out if you were denied that intersection departure or not. If you brought up Tyler’s tutorial than you know that we are trained to allow intersection departures. Which begs this question in my mind: why make this topic If you know that intersection departures are allowed? and if you were upset that your intersection departure was denied allowed why not just ask the controller why he denied it? be a man and pm him. don’t make indirect complaints and rap it up like its some kind of discussion you care to have. and you should stop with insults. you are way to old for that. like way to old. like really old.

@CyLyric… MaxSez: Thank ou for your insightful response to the Topic. Kindred Spirits at last!

@Gavrilo … Well it’s time to Strap on a GA and try your luck. Be an aviator and not a bus driver every once in awhile! Regards GMan…

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@Shawn_Coleman… Enough! Take it to PM or I’ll Flag you! I don’t argue in public. Let this comment be a lesson to you! Last response this thread!

("Way to old is insulting, I let it pass, move on)

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IFATC Nayeem, creeto, Marcello M, Ash, Lszh34, Tim Beckman, Gen Doug H, The OP, GuitarIvo, Ghamz and of course anyone of the other supervisors or moderators. This is a short list of the controllers that I have witnessed having the confidence and talent to accommodate such a request. There’s others and I’m sure I’m missing a few so no offense to the team. The idea is to spawn in, search for an obvious choice, respawn if need be, and press the issue.

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Yes Tim Beckmann once told me No intersection departures allowed When he was open at EGHH but at that time I didn’t have the knowledge of knowing what it Meant