MaxSez… I note a plethora of Ghosts without warning lately for minor violations like Rolling on the grass or Pushback without authority. This trend appears to be have started when NON-IFATC where placed in positions of full authority on Expert. So the question remains are Non-IFATC’s granted Ghosting authority. The screen shot shows to days line up at an Expert Port. The controllers certification/annotation is IPP or none. Are they. IFATC’s or wavered?
MaxSends
Yes, everyone controlling on expert is an IFATC member.
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@KyleBoas… MaxSez: What dose “Member” mean? It a nebulas term.
If trained and certified IFATC they should identify as IFATC when controlling on the Expert to avoid challenges and questions like this!
Trust but verify is the Key.
MaxSends
They’re all trained, tested, monitored, supervised, ect.
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If he controls the expert there is no need to identify in the name IFATC since all are.
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MaxSez: As you circle the controller wagons this Indian opinion remains unchanged. The IPP’s EtAl’s appear Quick on the Ghost trigger lately. Just Sayin, Max
Trust is the key, my friend, to have a ghost there must be a reason, and whether immediate or not, there’s always a catch to what the pilots say and what they do. I’ve done this myself, you bend the situation to suit you. You may have been warned, or got clearance for pushback, but taxi… What is classed as “immediately” can be broken down into the real scene.
Not that I’m an IFATC yet, but I would never ghost someone until a warning has been issued and they don’t follow instructions, not saying all controllers are like this, but they control larger (class Bravo) airports for a reason, they’ve gone through extensive training and testing, something that takes a lot of effort and quick thinking.
It’s better to keep our servers neat and clean, than having 3 different public servers for no reason and more cost.
There’s no requirement for Expert Controllers to have IFATC in their username however we strongly encourage controllers to have identifiable usernames that make it easy for IFC users and fellow controllers to find a controller if they have an inquiry.
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As controllers, we have specific guidelines and procedures to follow before banning a user from the expert server for a week. If any controller wrongfully ghosts someone, it’s reversed. It’s all designed to make the rule followers as happy as possible :)
MaxSez: A controversy or difference of opinion is a good thing. Strength in numbers in defense shows loyalty to the group, it’s call group think… or Mob mentality. Chose one. My opinion remains unchanged, this is my last input this Topic!
G’day, Independent/ Nonpartisan Max Sends
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As an additional note, expert controllers have the option of selecting a reason for the report. You can see this reason in the logbook.
There are a handful of trusted supervisors and moderators who can report other planes as a pilot. These reports will typically show up as “Not Specified” as a reason. Supervisor reports are reserved for the more serious infractions while ATC is not present. Taxiing without using unicom for example is not a reporting offense while landing on top of another plane or against traffic is.
The IFATC team regularly monitors controller’s performance both by reviewing random controller replays as well as replays from pilots during report inquiries along with random incognito flights. Demotions are given if a controller shows abuse of power or needs additional training.
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Learned that first hand. Some person landed on me in expert, just a random on a controlled airport and proceeded to get bombarded to the point he left. It happens to a lot of people because no one respects IF rules these days. Unless you are on IFC or know what is going on, you will tend to not always follow and care for the rules.
Second, I don’t know why someone would be so trigger happy with ghost reports. Either there is a new policy on ghosting in IFATC, or the controller was having a bad day. I have no idea why someone would first of all make it to Grade 3, then go through all the training, a written, and a practical just to be as trigger happy as humanly possible to troll people. That would be quite the long game. However, maybe the controller could have just been one of those controllers who ghosts people for the slightest thing. Frankly, I could not tell you.
However, I would try to find the controller so you can contact them. In a PM you can talk about it.
Sadly, I cannot tell you much as I am not IFATC.
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This has never happened, and believe me, if it did, the controller would be punished.
Like I said earlier, we have guidelines to follow before we can ghost someone. It’s also fair to note that a lot of people who publicly post ghost complaints don’t include all of the information (which is why only the controller involved should be replying). There are also a considerable amount of ghosts that are reversed because the controller did make a mistake or didn’t see it from the pilots perspective.
Going back to what Chris said, IFATC controllers are constantly under supervision and constantly being evaluated to maintain professional standards.
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Which is why I said it is next to impossible to do it. It is possible, but as slim as it can humanly be.
As I stated above, I am not IFATC so I have pretty much no say in IFATC ops. and frankly I am too horrible at patterns to be IFATC
Hopefully IFATC is not trigger happy and doing it to troll people. If you think this is the case please forward your replay to a moderator and we will take a look. We take controller quality very seriously and will address issues if needed.
There are some cases when flying when warnings are not possible given the situation. Excessive speed at a low alt, etc. The biggest offenders I see are not paying attention to ATIS in relation to straight out departures and/or no pattern work.
When in doubt, just ask the controller after their session is over. Send them your replay so they can see it from your point of view and they will invite a moderator if needed. Be patient as controllers are busy controlling and after a long shift usually take a break from being online and will answer messages when they return.
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Oh trust me, I know. It would be too much of a long game. Well, actually someone could get their account stolen. However, I will be in touch if it ever does happen. However this topic should concern @Maxmustang and what happened to him and not my spitballing of theories.
@Levet Well put.
MattSends sorry Max, last time
Max,
With all do respect I think that the answers here provided were pretty accurate and clear in the attempt to address your inquiry. You took a screenshot of a controller that has been around for a little while and I’m guessing it was just for reference.
Ghostings topics that enter the forum 9 times out of 10 were in fact justified or there was a misinterpretation of what is expected from the pilot. There is a warning annunciation on the Expert Server prerequisites and at times like Friday Night Flights there are directives in place in which controllers don’t need to issue a warning for a ghost.
As always the Expert Server group is as transparent as possible and are always willing to assist in topics and are also available via private message. There’s a balance here and both pilots and controllers enjoy each other’s company.
Kind Regards,
FireDawg
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