MaxAsks: Auto Land & EGLC (London City)

MaxAsks: Flew “Auto Land” Approaches into London City yesterday
following normal procedure in a A-318 Went Missed continually and overshot by a mile+, Missed on Final a few times at FL-030 & climbing, then gave it up. Thought it was me till I re-read the 2015 tutorial and noted EGLC’s ILS was not operational. Is a fix for this aerodromes ILS calibration on the To Do list? If it’s not possible to fix this anomaly suggest a NOTAM be placed in this fields Chart Info notting g this downer for AlCon.

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good spot, I tend to fly by hand into most airports and always into EGLC so not noticed that one!

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First thing, autoland isn’t qualified for approaches over 5° (EGLC is 5.5°). Secondly, I’ll check the nav files over for EGLC :)

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Third:
I don’t think we have any aircraft in IF actually configured for that steep approach? C-130 perhaps…

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C-130 has the steep approach credentials but actually might not be allowed at EGLC - you need multiple backup autopilots and computers in case something goes wrong as it’s so close to central London and I’m not sure it has them. I believe the ERJ series (and maybe the CCX) don’t require special equipment for the approach, but the a318 definitely does and we don’t have the special approach spoilers on that. So the ERJ is the only qualified aircraft for the approach (tho this may be wrong) but with its old physics it’s not very good for flying it 😐

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@MaxSez: Interesting tech data, I don’t really care if it’s 3 or 5 or 9 deg slope.
If an ILS Auto Land is not viable at any IF aerodrome a NOTAM should be issued and posted in Chart Info just like Type Restrictions. Gooday.

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Max this is likely a navdata issue- I’ll check it

EDIT- It isn’t. The APPR computer just can’t execute the descent of that high a gradient.

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It would seem from what I have found is that the EASA only allows manual landings for steep approaches. Not sure if this is possibly because autoland flight ops are not capable of landing aircraft on steep approach in real life. However, with the charts I have it shows that EGLC is a CAT I, CAT A, CAT B, and CAT C airport, which screams that you should not be in a position where you will need to be using Autoland as you will never be operating a CAT III approach at EGLC. It appears that if that is the category of approach that you are to divert. It would be in my opinion that EGLC does not even allow autoland approaches in real life and that landings must be manual.

SOP from Europen operator going to EGLC states:

Aircraft with the appropriate modifications are approved for manually flown steep
approaches to a landing with visual reference to the runway using a suitable glide path
system for day/night operations, in accordance with AFM Supplements 12 and 45.

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@IceBlue… MaxSez: Noted Bluey! knew there was a logical explanation, beyond my tech expertise , that’s way the Inquiry! Accordingly, suggest FDS or one of its volunteers minions add and explanation on this anomaly into the Tutorial and post a NOTAM into the Chart Info for AlCons guidance. U da man Blue. Regards

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@anon2063420…MaxSez: Very interesting, but let’s keep in mind that we are not dealing with professionals here. The IF approach is geared to the Fledgling.
I consider your input Professional Knowledge Gained for the Aviation Aficionado. But the KISS principle prevails, in this case a NOTAM will do.
Thanks for your effort. Gooday.

(Ever Fly on a Foggy Day in London Town, Cat ll/lll abound year round)

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@anon2063420… MaxSez: Just to prove a point London City and Fog.

IMG_0640

"Reduced visibility over London resulted in more than 100 flights out of Heathrow and London City airports getting cancelled, with one video recorded by a plane passenger showing only the tip of the Shard poking out from underneath the clouds. As the fog continues to linger and Britons resign themselves to a lifetime of low visitiblity and dampness, now is a good time to learn a little bit more about this white, wispy menace. " (London Telegraph)

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Easy with classic AP in the A318 ;-)

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@Q-ENAN… Noted. Agree on London City but never AP. I hand fly both Approaches and Departures. Rarely fly AutoLand, just a Fam hop this time to keep the ticket punched. Unless it socked in, real aviators fly Visual Approaches & Departures wind/wx permitting. AP’s is for cruising unless you have all the wizbangs (FMS) which IF don’t!.

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Granted it’s IF, but since nothing bigger than an A318 is allowed IRL, wouldn’t the fact that it was an A319 also cause issues, if you’re trying to follow real world procedures? Although that’s disregarding the autoland part of this.

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@Rock77… Let’s not beat this dead dead horse to death. Your right but this is IF. Bottom Line, For IF if there’s a Restriction or NOTAM they should be noted in all IF Chart Info Blocks It make no sense to me to mix apples with oranges on tech things for minor procedure for fledglings. Remember IF uses the Kiss Principle. This Topic was about IF AutoLand and a fussy program not who is a procedure or type expert via the book. Just Kiss it nextime, don’t over engage your brain pan with FAA or EU AIM’s, IF has its own modified procedures. Gooday…

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Some Dash-8’s and the BA A318 is capable, unless the physics arent like IRL

We’re talking IF here, not real life :)

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Yeah I know, but im not sure if the physics IRL match the physics of the aircraft in IF, if they math the steep approach grade etc of 5.5 degrees for LCY for example

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Those aircrafts are configured differently for steep approaches. The ones in IF are not.

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Thats what I was questioning, at least I now know :)

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