Marty_Davis’s ATC Tracking Thread - [CLOSED] @ N/A

Thanks for feed back wasn’t sure if clearance was required again as you were cleared for option already just needed a sequence change. Take that on board

Sorry couldn’t hang longer

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For clarification, I was the first a/c you worked correct?

Yes if u mean in the session otherwise no have been learning for a little while

I just checked with supervisor if you have already been cleared for the option as number 1 and become number 2 you just need the new sequence as number 2 and not required to be re cleared.

Apparently i can clear for option at anytime after you clear runway however I agree probably in this case could have waited as the other a/c was changing runways a bit and this would have avoided the re sequence

Lol eagerly awaiting your feedback something tells me i made a few mistakes

Await no more…

Feedback: Flight Check 5

First thing I noticed occurred before spawning; no runway usage specified. In these ATC Training Tracking Threads, I look for and use (in my own) the location information as a partial substitute for ATIS. One one hand, it gives participants a guide to choose their spawn location; the other, demonstrates the Trainee has made some preparation on their end. This will come into focus below**

Pros:

  • Transition altitude AAB3500

  • Runway Changes and re-clearance

  • You recognized the Runway Exit although after the fact. Its very easy to become complacent with these and conflict with the aircraft on final could have arisen if I wasn’t already on the High-Speed Exit.

  • Final Runway Change, Pattern Entry, Clearance and re-sequence. Have to disagree with @RickG’s comment above. Both he and I were given the correct instructions.

Cons:

  • ** First Challenge was my initial approach request for 36R. I’d like to understand the near immediate jump to approving this and the reasoning for issuing a Right Downwind Pattern entry from my position.

  • Clearing @RickG so soon after takeoff. This “cluttered” the frequency with non emergent communications when I announced go-around on short final. Although busy frequencies are unavoidable most of the time, there’s not need to rush with minimal traffic. Try to prioritize using not just the position, but also the stage of flight.

Overall huge improvement in your part compared to the recent session at YPAD (terrible wind)

Thanks for the feedback the more the better. Firstly I have only used the ATC thread a couple times and only really just made aware of it so any help here much appreciated. Will implement your suggestion. Also I have never used Discord before In real world I stay entirely off social media and never engage online so this is my first time using this forum properly. Iam still learning how to use it. Old dog new things. Iam not entirely sure how to do what you have suggested. Do I go to airport first work things out then go back to the ATC THREAD and implement an ATIS of sorts?

In your screen shot it shows the runways 36 as green in my session they were red on my screen so I was expecting u to transition overhead and then enter a right downwind for 18R. If you were wanting 36R you would have most likely transitioned lined up for the right downwind for that runway.

When you called for 36R I was caught off guard it was a shorter runway you were not in the best position for this runway as you had overflown it and were in the wrong direction. I was expecting 18R which would have been the better runway for you. I thought about it for a bit and as you are at pattern altitude a right downwind entry from that position would require you to stay pattern altitude until,you enter right downwind I was expecting you to turn right then cross midfield and join on the right down wind for 36R. Was I wrong to asu e this. What would have been the better way?

I agree with clearing so early and if I had of left it longer it would have avoided a resequence. However in this instance as I understand once an aircraft clears the runway I can clear for the option especially since they were number 1 and at the time you were also in the pattern for the other runway. The runway change from you was not normal and from memory I cleared you to 18R I think you asked for the other runway on late downwind. I do recall you requested a runway change at the same time as I sent the clearance. So I had to wait for your audio to stop my audio to start and stop as I had already sent at the same time as your request I could see there was a gap so changed your runway anyway and resequenced the other aircraft.

Look forward to your thoughts

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Server: Training

ICAO: RJBB

FREQUENCY: Ground & Tower

ACTIVE RUNWAYS: 06L 06R

ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES: 06L 06R

PATTERN WORK: 18L OR 18R

RUNWAY CHANGES: Approved

Anytime. Feedback is often the only way to debrief and fully understand.

The easiest way to prepare is by simply hopping on ground at the airport you’ll be controlling, noting the conditions and preferred runways, and taking a run through the camera views to see if there are any things of note. Personally, I check the real world AWOS, note TAF’s, and grab a look on windy or skyvector to see the terminal area conditions and winds before doing the step above.

Weather Data isn’t recorded in the replays. Every runway indicates green in them. During our session, 36’s were not usable.

You’ll find in every ATC session you have, whether Open Tracking or official IFATC TT, the transition that isn’t a transition and becomes an approach request will be presented at least once per. I chose the location to make it challenging, further adding the wrong runway request. The pattern entry wasn’t good or bad. You provided context with the process that went into giving it. 👍🏼

The fault there was approving the 36R approach. I was planning 18L the entire time; would have accepted 18R as well.

ICAO: KHRL

FREQUENCY: Ground & Tower

ACTIVE RUNWAYS: 35L 35R

ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES: 35L 35 R

PATTERN WORK: 35L 35R

RUNWAY CHANGES: Approved

The first two laps were great, no issues. 😀 I have a few points though on the last one:

  • You didn’t have to include the “make right traffic” instruction when clearing N878VY for the option since you already included that in the takeoff clearance.

    The pattern direction is only needed after a runway change or for inbound aircraft.

  • When I requested the change to 06R you should have established a sequence i.e. what you want us to do much earlier.

    You chose to wait which meant that I had to extend downwind (since I had no sequence or clearance and N878VY was cleared number 1). Once the gap was good for N878VY to fit in as number 1 you sequenced him to follow me. This is totally fine, although it’s a bit inefficient.

    However, there was no need to tell them to extend downwind in my opinion. Once you sequence someone, it is the pilot’s job to remain separation (which is also why sequencing is so important). You can use extend downwind for example to create gaps for departures or if the situation is really difficult to understand for the pilots. With only two aircraft in the pattern, that is not really the case.

    If you feel unsure about which aircraft should go first, that’s totally fine. In such a scenario, just do something, even if it’s not the “best” solution.

    The “best” thing in my opinion would have been (right after I requested the change):

    • D-SEBA, enter left downwind runway 06R
    • D-SEBA, number 1, runway 06R, cleared for the option, after the option, make right traffic
    • N878VY, number 2, traffic to follow is on left downwind
    • N878VY, number 2, runway 06R, cleared for the option

    Mainly because I was further ahead on downwind while N878VY were still turning crosswind.

    At the moment you issued the sequence, it would have been better to sequence me as number 2 and follow N878VY in, since I was really far out on downwind and N878VY was at a reasonable point to turn base already.

  • I never received a clearance for 06R! I even reported position on short final to make you aware but you didn’t realise, which is why I had to go around.

    Note that aircraft reporting their position usually do so to tell you that they’re still missing a clearance (or they let you know that they will FS).

I didn’t want it to be this long… 😅 I hope it helps! Thanks for having me and feel free to tag me next time. 🙂

Cheers

Thanks for feed back, I was unaware you were not cleared as my screen was showing you as having been cleared. I extended aircraft downwind because I was expecting you to turn base wondered why you hadn’t. I was going to sequence him once I was sure he would fit in as number 2 both of you were nearly parallel and you were a much faster aircraft. I no it’s pilots responsibility for the sequence but outside of training I find this does not happen much even on expert server. I get differing opinions here so I try and make sure I avoid conflict and give instruction where I can for good separation.

When you continued downwind I sequenced other one then called his base after you turned so there was good spacing.

Your feedback explains a lot not sure why this happens but a few times now the ATC commands show aircraft cleared and assigned but in the instructions the haven’t it was quite so I could have read the calls but who does that

I was cleared, but for 06L. 😅 After the change request you need to re-clear for the new runway. Always double check if an aircraft reports position, no matter what the colour shows.

Sometimes this (green colour not disappearing) also happens when ground contact was very brief in a touch and go, at least that’s what happens to me quite a lot.

As I said, you cleared the other aircraft as number 1 while I have received neither sequence nor clearance. I therefore have to wait for the other aircraft until I can turn base.

Once you re-sequenced them as number 2 later on, I immediately turned base.

This is where we were right after my request to change:

They weren’t even established on DW yet while I was coming up on the base turn. This is also not about whether the other aircraft can “fit in”, as they can just extend on DW as much as they need to comply with the instructed sequence since they’re number 2 anyway.

ICAO: KHRL

FREQUENCY: Ground & Tower

ACTIVE RUNWAYS: 35L 35R

ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES: 35L 35 R

PATTERN WORK: 35L 35R

RUNWAY CHANGES: Approved

ICAO: KHRL

FREQUENCY: Ground & Tower

ACTIVE RUNWAYS: 35L 35R

ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES: 35L 35 R

PATTERN WORK: 35L 35R

RUNWAY CHANGES: Approved