Mandatory incident reports for non-system ghost

On a bright and cheery morning In January, we start off with a commentary we’ve all grown weary of.

Pilot vs ATC.

It’s time to make it clear cut. No questions, No arguments, No more wasted time, and most importantly a community that comes together under one understanding.

It’s time to implement a full incident report system for all non-system ghosting. Will it take time? Yes. Will some complain about it? Absolutely.

But most importantly, Is it realistic? You betcha!

I welcome any and all suggestions on how to implement this post-haste.

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I like the proposal. I feel that this could bring some information to those that receive it and a great learning tool.

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Is this something inside the sim or are you talking outside?

I am not going to multi-task while controlling to fill out a form online or on another app. We have enough connection problems with people multi-tasking on their device as it is.

If the system would automatically capture the logs upon ghosting I think that would save a lot of headache on both sides. My thinking is that a form allows for the pilot and atc opinion on what happened and the truth gets lost. Being able to see the log would go a long way for Mods to come to a resolution. It puts more on the ATC to give warnings prior to the ghost and helps the pilot see what was going on. We have seen many posts where someone claims to be wrongly ghosted only to post the screen shot of the log to realize it was justified.

His request goes back to an earlier thread of ghosting. He believes that every ghosting should be accompanied by a form or report of some sort. I do not think it is necessary because IFATC already has guidelines and has to answer to ghosting complaints. Screen shots, etc.

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I don’t think I’m getting this at all, I need more information to understand this!

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Please make your request more clear. Thanks.

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What are you talking about? Try and put more information.

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2 things happen if you’re ghosted:

  1. You know why and don’t query it

  2. You are confused and want to know why. Thus, you ask/complain on the forum. ATC then contact you and explain it, and you go from there

If we have the above two, why do you think we would need this system, whatever it is?🙂

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I feel I should add that I’ve not once been ghosted as I don’t give ATC any call nor reason to do so. 👍

The incident reports would be filed in a timely manner (It doesn’t have to be at the time of the incident/while still in ops), perhaps within 24hrs.

The feature could be built into the ATC menus or just added to the current system of taking a screen shot.

My intent with this feature request is to remove any confusion as to ATC’s actions with a clear concise summary on the incident along with evidence.

It would cut down on the threads where a user asks about their incident and several members of IFATC, some of them even moderators proceed to jump on them like a hungry shark.

It doesn’t have to be that way! 🙂

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So like an autonomous air traffic controller or would there be a controller but a system would do the ghosting…

He is not asking for anything like that. He wants a way for whoever did the ghosting to be able to say why for the user to see it. This way the user won’t go to the forum and post yet another topic.

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Precisely.

This isn’t about a witch hunt or anything like that. If a pilot knows for certain why they were ghosted then they may learn from that experience and move on.

If their removal was questionable then the report and it’s evidence will tell the tale without either side having to argue or get heated.

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Ah I get it

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We have a system. PM the controller. We will be happy to explain. I would actually prefer that people inquire if they’re not sure. If it was an honest mistake, an inquiry will help them learn. The pilot versus ATC thing is overblown. All you have to do is follow instructions.

(And for the PIC makes the decisions people, yes, IRL, that’s true. But IRL, the PIC doesn’t intentionally cause incursions or ignore all other traffic.)

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Details can and do get lost in the mix, No matter how good one’s memory is.

Think of it as a CYA.

We have talked before about there being a list of reasons on the ghosting screen. Failure to follow instructions, entering the runway without permission, excessive speeding, taxiing though planes/grass.

Right now the focus is on global. :)

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“we Have a system” “All you have to do is follow is follow instructions” “We’ve talked before”… MaxSez: Let’s take them one at a time; 1) The System: where is the “PM Ghosting System Published Publicly”, There was a Column Header on the Forum main page posted for a period Identifying @Joe as the Ghost arbitrator and outlining the PM procedures, is has been taken down! I note that the majority of Pilots that gripe about a Ghost are ill informed and routinely new Grade 3’s. I Suggest this “Requirement” be permanently Posted Publicly. 2). “Following Instructions”. since we are dealing with Ghosting which is only imposed on the Expert let’s keep in mind the “The Pilot in Command is the decision maker”. In my opinion most violations are reported during high tempo operations and are committed by the new Grade 3. The new kid learns from the experience so be it. Grade 4/5 should face a 7 day suspension if Joe find against them. 3). “We’ve talked about this before”. Yes we have and it’s still a chronic problem. Instead of shooting hole in a corrective action recommendation stop being critical and obnoxious. Descent in a collegial manner. Finally I hope the day come when the ATC leadership gets a handle on those “Trainee Controller” and have them stand-down and stop circling the wagons with there quasi-authorities interjections. There are IFATC designated to make public statements, offer constructive advise etc. (The “rookie” Controllers who jump into these type discussions and pontificate in there rude know it all attitude do not add anything positive to these type Topics.
MaxSends

(info: @Joe)

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No, this won’t happen… I’ve spoken to Tyler about it before.

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Never say never mats don’t be a negative Nancy

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I would call it Pilots vs IFATC/Moderators

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@AggieAirlines This is not a gang v gang war the last time I heard.

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