Finally i would like to know
What wrong with some ATC controllers
Yesterday after vectoring i was gliding along ILS01 with ATC clearance for landing,but when 4 miles remained another traffic got clearance for lining up at same runway.Lining up and wait-not immediate takeoff.By the way-at same time i has only 8 minutes fuel remaining and in a moment controller was commanded me “GO AROUND”
1 dollar question-Why you(controllers) gives clearance for landing and after that permitting another pilot lining up?Its not good job.
Thank heaven-it just a Game)))
Finally i would like to know
This is allowed by the somewhat stupid FAA rules
You mean 4 miles or 4 NM?
Had you declared a fuel emergency?
TS1 or Expert server?
Just because you were cleared to land does not mean aircraft are no longer allowed to depart in front of you. You need to understand that these controllers are people, they make mistakes, they are not perfect. They try the best they can and if they make a mistake once in a while it is okay as long as the learn from it.
How is that stupid? It’s not a “rule” either. It’s an efficient and safe way to get aircraft in/out of the airport.
Seeing as he is an actual ATP it is safe to assume he knows what he is talking about. This would seem to be mismanagement by the ATC as he should have either given immediate take off clearance for a rolling take off or have held the aircraft short of the runway. Seeing as you were on fuel emergency he should have held the other aircraft regardless. If this was on expert contact the controller to talk with them. If on TS there is nothing to be done as those guys arent really trained as the IFATC guys are.
You were four nautical miles out. That is a good minute and a half at least for the previous aircraft to takeoff. Plenty of time. It was probably busy and the controller wanted to squeeze in as many departures as possible. But the go around part was probably his fault.
I consider it less safe
Consider the way it works in Hong Kong it’s still extremely efficient while not sacrificing safety
The problem isnt that there was another aircraft taking off. The problem he is stating is why the aircraft was not given immediate take off clearance. By the time the guy would have lined up on the runway the inbound aircraft would have been 2-3nm out on short.
How do you think Heathrow, Dubai, JFK, LAX, etc… have the opportunity to push an aircraft every minute? It’s one of the most important FAA rules. Allowing controllers to really maximize these billion dollar facilities.
Note also you should have planned better fuel. I think the rule is 45 minutes or five percent extra and enough to divert to another airport. And if you did plan that using a program, find another program ;)
That aside, it is probably TS and we all make mistakes.
Edit: 45 minutes not 30. 30 for helies.
I give up here. First he is in a fighter. There are not accurate fuel planners for fighter aircraft fuel, simbrief doesnt even have the aircraft available on the website. If he was flying for fun and as fast as he can he could have a full tank and still burn through this.
A lot of you need to look at all the info in the picture before making unwise assumptions.
@Arby36 I think US regulations say you need at least 45 minutes of extra fuel.
Hong Kong manages this without giving landing clearance if the runway isn’t clear
They do it while maintaining a extreme high efficiency as if they do it in the FAA way. So it seems to me that the FAA way is less safe while as efficient as the ICAO one. Maybe someone correct me?
Some controllers haven’t really looked into any instruction, so they may get things wrong. (On TS1.) I’d expect this type of behavior with many TS1 controllers. I believe the rule is the departing aircraft has to be airborne before the arriving aircraft crosses the runway threshold, so there still might have been some space. ATC’s fault.
I see your point. And I will not argue further because I do not know the OP’s stance on realism.
Uh, no. If the U.S, a country with some of the most complex and busiest airspaces in the world with the highest capita of international airports, can handle operations just fine using such a rule, then it works.
The OP’s question can best be explained with what this guy said.
And, as for the FAA “rules,” at facilities without a safety logic system, LUAW cannot be used when an aircraft has been issued a landing clearance, and you can’t give a landing clearance when someone is in position and hold. We do, however, have ground radar, nullifying that particular issue.
Its as simple as this: The go around was completely the controllers fault. Period. The inbound aircraft was cleared to land at 4NM from threshold. The controller trying to squeeze in another departure, should of delayed that departure or at the least cleared it for an immediate takeoff.
I’ve been in this position a few times on the expert server. On multiple occasions a controller has created a situation when a go around needed to be performed when there was absolutely no reason that the traffic waiting to depart should have needed to line up or be cleared for takeoff. I’m not sure if this is a case of controllers being overwhelmed by traffic, a problem in training, or something other combination. I know every pilot does help the cause by coming in at an appropriate speed but I’m just documenting my experiences as someone who does try diligently to maintain separation from landing and departing traffic.
If you want to debate lining up with someone on final, please move it to a PM as you are taking the thread away from the original point of the topic.
Let’s wait until we hear back from the OP on all the questions that have been asked otherwise we are speculating.
Was this expert or training?