London to Sydney by 2022

Just found an article posted on the Secret Flying website discussing the challenge of connecting London and Sydney. It seems Boeing and Airbus are on par to bridge the gap with the 777X and the A350, respectively by 2022. Qantas is currently weighing the two aircraft as well as the marketing challenges for the 20-hour route. After all, who in their right mind would spend that many consecutive hours on an airplane? The article further discusses the possibility of putting sleeping areas and maybe even a workout area in the cargo hold, accessible by passengers. Seems rather creative! What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

Link to the article:
https://www.secretflying.com/posts/20-hour-non-stop-flights-from-london-to-sydney-by-2022/

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I think that this will be a very controversial flight, as it will be interesting to see how many people will want to fly it due to the massive flight time

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The 18 hour flight from Perth to London is doing very well… I can’t see why Sydney to London wouldn’t do well

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To be honest I would, with the flights that people are taking today, like Doha to Auckland and Perth to London, and how comfterable flying is becoming (on full cost carriers) I wouldn’t mind!

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Fair enough, I see what you mean

Yea, the reviews for these flights say their comfy, even in economy! I defiantly wouldn’t mind.

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Wait, why does it take 18 hrs to go from Perth to Sydney, it’s only 4 hrs.

May want to edit that…

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Im willing to put money on Qantas using the a350 ULR for that route, its a bit smaller then the 777x and over all a better aircraft.

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hmmm. It’s quite interesting really; a lot of people whine that the plane has to stop, but I don’t know how many people would be willing to spend that amount of time on a plane. I know I wouldn’t!

Wrong wrong wrong…The A350-900ULR has a lower MTOW than the 777-8X. The 777-8X can carry more cargo as well as more passengers than the A350ULR. The 777-8X has more going for it as it has a similar commonality rating as the 787-9.

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I agree with you. I see it being more likely Qantas using the 777-8X rather than the A350-900ULR.

I see your point but with a higher MTOW and lager aircraft so does the operating coasts, one of the key selling features of the a350 is its very low operating coasts. at the end of the day it doesnt matter about how many people you fit into a plane or how much cargo. all that matters is passenger comfort and Profits. and the a350 wins out on both those categories

plus the article says they want to start the route by 2022 and the 777X isn’t even out yet or in production… and well all know boeing with its countless delays and setback it could possibly be between 2025-2030 before quantas gets there first 777X, and also the 777X is going to require a different type ranting then the 787

Two questions for you:

  1. Does Qantas already have the a350? Edit on this one… disregard as I was under the impression Qantas already flies the 777.
  2. Does the 777X require a new type rating or does it share a type rating with the current 777’s already in service?

That should be a very popular route :-)

to answer your question

  1. quantas does not have any a350 or 777s

  2. yes, the 777x required a new type rating FROM THE 787 (they dont have 777s)

What about the a350? Will that require a new type rating or is it shared with anything that’s currently in their fleet?

You forget, Qantas wants to have also Economy seats and the ULR doesn’t have Economy seats and isn’t able to be configured for them. Qantas said they want this route to not only be for the very rich

Yes it does Qantas wants 300 people to fit

It does matter, quite a lot, if not almost one of the most important aspects i can find when it comes to make profit out of a Ultra Long Haul. And Cargo, oh there we have golden treasure ;)

Yes and No, it’s not all that matters and in fact to make profit, the more passengers the more profit you make but there’s a catch and a point that you have, let me explain :)


Basically both London and Sydney are some of the most vital cites in the world for various purposes, in the world of aviation and economy, Sydney is the gate way to the Oceanic region as i see it, Goods weighing many Tons are unloaded and loaded everyday on the harbor from massive container ships. Now look from a environmental perceptive, sure air travel isn’t he kindest to the environment but it’s faster, and does require cooling of goods unlike ships that travel for days across oceans to deliver what they are carrying. Now in the Cargo aspect of a flight, if the 777X as @JRRaviation mentioned, which btw i didn’t know the 777X had a larger MTOW , thanks for the insight/info :)

Anyway, the 777X can carry more cargo, this isn’t necessarily offload the the amount of ships coming in and out of Sydney and that’s not the reason either why Qantas might pick the 777X over the A350, but rather if you think about it like, you carry more cargo with the 777X, and deliver it to the other side of the world in less than 24hrs, instead of taking the long route though customs and all that in Asia or the ship on a week long journey, you can get the cargo across fast and efficiently, and also since the 777X also will be rocking the new GE9X which is very very fuel efficient, so it’ll cut costs for operation while still being able to hold more cargo and passengers.

For the passengers, we know Kingsford and Heathrow are enormous major hubs, dealing with continues traffic day and night, millions of people pass by monthly, so the route will most likely based on what i can find and think of be a success, now a direct route from LHR to SYD, they want to cram in as many as possible, to fill as many seats as possible and with the demand for such a route only growing by the day, opting for the 777X, will give Qantas some kind of assurance that they can fill the plane, and make more profit than what they would with the A350, as Qantas is not going for a all Business seating, but economy as well, they would be better off with the 777X, more passengers, filling all seats, resulting in more profit than what the A350 could make, a significant difference in the long run, a economical advantage over any potential future competitor. They’ll have the game in hand, if anyone every tried to do the same, Qantas would already know how blow them them away. Pretty much, with the 777X the options are unlimited you could say, at the same time they are filling all seats, making money out of it, the comfort you mentioned will of course be there, only that they making more money on the run ;)


Now there’s only one flaw that i can find so far and that is… If they are not able to fill all seats or the route become less full or profitable, in those cases the A350 would be a better alternative, but at the same time cargo is always to be counted, external ones, not what passengers bring along, those other contracts that Qantas has with companies to deliver their goodies to London, well, the 777X will profit in that area as well, the flaw in cargo is difficult to find right now, the crave for exporting and importing good across to and from Europe/AUS is crucial, to exchange products in less time than what is would take on other flights is great deal for not only Qantas but external contracts, operators and companies. Obviously the 777X being a PAX airplane isn’t supposed to serve as a Cargo hauler but it will be a opener for direct cargo delivery.


One last thing, i’m not trying to bash you or anything, just sharing my opinion, i also believe that they wouldn’t go wrong with the A350, but if you think futuristic, ahead of you the 777X, is the better option in this case, in the practical sense, carrying more passengers on a long awaited route that most likely fill up to max, and carrying more cargo, that will be dropped off at the other side of the world in less than a day (24hrs), is something that you can’t say no to. At the same time as you are carrying more, you are burning less fuel per seat, less fuel in general, cutting operation costs tremendously, all this stacked up profits Qantas, this is beneficial for them.


I’m running out of words, haha, so feel free to counter my argument/opinion and i’ll be happy to answer, also i think i need to go to sleep, to fresh up my brain a little bit, so hit me with any counter argument that you may have or a question at that, i’ll be geting back to you soon :)

Thank You for reading!
// JR

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