Level 2 Violation

Hello - My flying record is excellent with no violations on the last 100 landings until I received a level 2 violation for crossing the hold short line without permission. Has anyone received this type of violation? It made me nervous and now I always radio in that I am holding short of a runway before I taxi onto the active even when there are no controllers on duty at the airport. Just curious if others received a similar violation. I didn’t see anything about this one while searching but I certainly agree that is a safety issue in real life so I understand why I got the violation.

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Good to hear that you understand why you got the violation and also good to hear that you are going to be extra cautious going forward :)

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ATCs in the expert server will do anything for attention. And then they’ll go MIA. Though if you actually tried to line up without ATC permission (which I’m not entirely sure is the case from what you wrote) then you have your level 2 violation well deserved. Cheers

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@e111 the violation, as stated, he was aware of his mistake, and is being cautious. In no way, shape, or form is ATC “asking for attention.” Going “MIA” is them probably trying to assist with other matters.

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Hello!

Sorry to hear that you received a violation. ATC can report you for entering an active runway. However, if you accidentally went over the “hold short” line and entered the active runway, then there is actually a command where ATC can issue “you were not cleared to enter the runway, exit runway when able” (it’s something similar to that, I don’t know the exact wording used) So, the controller could have issued that instruction before issuing the violation. As that instruction does alert the pilot if they’re unaware that they’ve entered an active runway (for example going over the “hold short” line) Also, don’t be anxious, just be sure to follow instructions if ATC are active at an airport! Controllers should utilise the PFI & PFI or you will be reported before issuing a violation. In some cases, those instructions can’t be sent for example, if a pilot taxis through another aircraft.

Cheers!

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“the violation, as stated, he was aware…” what?

And I don’t think the violation is clear from what he wrote. By how much did he cross the hold short line? Did he try to line up on the runway or did he just taxi a little bit too much on his attempt to hold short off the runway? Like I said, if he tried to line up without ATC authorisation then he deserved that violation. Otherwise it was just another case of ATC attention-seeking lol

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ATC, as far as I know, (and I really hope this isn’t the case, as a lot of people I know would never do such thing) is trained for realism, not for their own personal needs.

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I sure hope

isnt true. If it is, im glad i havent experienced it yet.

However we do have to consider the demographics of the sim, and minimum IFATC requirements.

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Seen statements like this more times than I care to count over the years and you know what’s funny about it? Every time it’s been looked into via replays or similar, it’s been quite the opposite with the controller handing out the violation correctly.

This is why we have the Appeals group, to overturn violations that have been given incorrectly and to address potential issues with controllers not handling the violation system in an appropriate manner.

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yeah right… Look, I appreciate the work ATC volunteers do but I’ve seen (and experienced) some ridiculous things over the years.

To be fair, you removed “Every time it’s been looked into…” from its wider context, which includes “…via replays or similar,…”

The reviews are an evidence based system. It would seem there is such an evidence based system in place with fairness not only in mind, but as a priority.

Are you suggesting that the stream of evidence for such cases is frequently not being fairly reviewed?

That there is a bias by controllers and reviewers (who are themselves pilots) against pilots?

Wouldn’t that risk damaging the system to the point that you’d want to enforce fair assessment, and monitor for it for the sake of preservation, it nothing else? Do not the odds appear to be tipped in the direction of fairness?

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I didn’t “remove” anything, the original comment is right above for everyone to see… I replied to his notion that “every time” violations have been looked into it always turns out the ATC controlled did everything right, which is clearly not the case.

As to the rest of your comment, I never argued against the violations review system, so please don’t put words in my mouth :)

Cheers

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No disrespect intended, but if you view the violations review system works

then isn’t the following a contradiction with that?:

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No, there isn’t. The problem is with ATCs handing out crazy violations (that are usually overturned), not with the violations review system, which works just fine. For example, a crazy expert server ATC once gave me a level 3 violation IN THE TRAINING SERVER. It was later overturned after review, which, again, works just fine.

So no, there’s no contradiction there. Sorry mate

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sounds false, you can’t, and I repeat, YOU CAN’T get Lvl 3 voilations on the Training Server, must have been a glitch.

Well, it happened…

If the controller accidentally or for any unknown reason intentionally opened up on Training Server, it sure can :)

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