Hello, so I searched around for tips for landing and they’re about controlling the descent, VS, etc.
But I’d like to know more about the ‘hows’.
For example, I try to land on airports with no ILS on, I can be happy with ILS/APPR mode even if it doesn’t flare, just so I can at least land ‘decent’.
But when I do the GPS approach, I’m testing various ways to nail it, like…
Do I set a -1000 VS while the ALT is on 0 or something, when do I do that? I tried it once but it seemed like I will still be late (I was around 3.5kft at the start of the grey lines) and I just disengaged ALT and VS to land it (and it caused me to go faster ofc).
Do I manually fly until my circle thing is pointing on the runway, before using the HDG on the A/P to lock in there???
When do I engage the flaps? Do they vary from plane to plane? I fly different kinds of planes and I just wing the flaps when I feel like extending them.
Also I just used the Spoilers: Flight last night to decrease my speed more, it worked for me but not sure if that’s how you’re supposed to use them lol
I saw a plane land on TS and they were on around 230kts near the start of the gray lines, and they were able to land successfully
I’m afraid to overspeed my landing so I always start the gray lines at around 190kts (and I still overspeed sometimes because of pitch)
Any technical tips on using A/P and such?
How do you know if you’ll make it to the runway, is it the circle thing?
Sometimes I don’t get to the runway when I feel like I will, sometimes I overshoot when I feel like I don’t.
LIke what are the technicals here?
TY
Edit: Okay I’ve watched some videos and it seems like they use the AP for the thrust and handfly the plane for the altitude and use the circle thing. I’ll practice that.
This is my answer based on my flying experience, please point out any shortcomings for discussion!😄
We generally consider an approach without vertical guidance to be a non-precision approach, when the control of the vertical rate is at the pilot’s discretion. General non-precision has VOR, NDB approach, due to the limitation of navigation facilities, the beginning of the non-tight approach is a step down, as shown in Fig. ↓
At this point, you just need to descend according to the altitude indication on the chart (of course, with the development of technology, something called CDFA has been proposed, if you are interested, I will continue to discuss it with you), as for the adjustment of the rate of descent, you can refer to the table of ground speed - rate of descent conversion which is included in every non-precision approach chart. However, if your ground speed exceeds the range provided by the chart, here is a rule of thumb: add a 0 to the end of the result of ground speed ÷ 2, which is the rate of descent corresponding to a 3° angle of descent at this time (example: 90kt GS, then 90 ÷ 2 = 45, 450 is the rate of descent parameter that we want). As to when to descend, you should not follow the grey lines in the game, but the charts. If you don’t have a chart, check the procedures in FPL and follow their altitude.
Generally, the aircraft should be disconnected from the AP and operated manually as it approaches DA(H)/MDA(H), but if you feel the need to intervene early to adjust the aircraft’s attitude, do what you want. As for the circle you mention, I don’t quite understand what it is, and besides, disconnecting AP means that all functions are cancelled (except autothrust, and in fact AP and AT are separate on many flight control systems)
(Due to word limitations, subsequent responses will be presented in separate posts.)
For GPS approaches, I follow the PAPI lights. What I do is descend to the final altitude given by the arrival procedure of the STAR, already configured for landing with full flaps and gear down. Once you’re like that and have the runway in sight, wait till the PAPI lights are Red/White, that’ll signal you’re on the correct 3° approach path. I then turn off the autopilot and hand fly the plane to the runway. Remember: Two White lights indicate you’re too high, Red and White indicate you’re on glide path, and Red and Red mean you’re too low.
Regarding vertical speed, it varies according to your approach speed. A good descent goes between 600 to 800v/s.
For flap extension, I use distance and speed. I want to extend the first notch of flaps at 20 miles out at 190, then I extend the rest on 10kts intervals (for the B737-800 this would be: 190 Flap 1, 180 Flap 5, 170 Flap 15, 160 Flap 30, and then slow down to my approach speed).
In fact, flaps are a good way to manage energy until the landing configuration is fully established (i.e. flaps all the way down), you can set the flaps according to the energy state of your aircraft, my recommendation is that you should put all the flaps down after the FAP/FAF to establish a stabilised approach.
Spoilers are a great energy reduction tool and you can use them without limitations when descending
I’d suggest 210 knots or so is good.
For APPR, I would suggest disconnecting the AP at DA/DH out, honestly, IF the APPR can be auto-landed, but the landing quality cannot be guaranteed. For RNP (LNAV/VNAV), VOR, NDB, I also suggest disconnecting AP at MDA/MDH, reasonable use of AP will greatly reduce the burden for your flight.
By circle do you mean descent indication? If so, I wouldn’t recommend referencing this as it’s far too accurate and deliberately following him may result in lower quality flight. After establishing a stabilised approach, I would recommend using the PAPI next to the runway, which is not as accurate in the IF, but it is sufficient. Also, I highly recommend using the HUD and aiming the FPV in the HUD at the landing spot, this will greatly improve the flight quality.
There’s an info bar at the bottom of the screen where you can set your perfect instrument panel. Long press on one, and move to the section that shows “Distance to Dest,” that’ll show how far you’re from the airport.
So it’s only been a day, and it’s just been some landings but I think I was overcomplicating it.
The only thing I did to improve my confidence was set the autothrottle and aim the FPV on the runway, turn off throttle at 20ft and (try to) flare.
Well I say try to because at the moment, I don’t mind at the moment if I’m flaring or not, I just want to avoid spinning around after touching down which I have done more than once lol.
There’s a lot of jargon on here so let’s bring it back to basics.
Tip 1 - Start on small GA aircraft, work your way up through the Biz jets, smaller airliners then the long haul fleet. Bigger the aircraft, more momentum and makes life trickier.
Tip 2 - As you come over the threshold, approx 10ft above the ground (visually judges) for the smaller aircraft, 20ft ish for the short haul fleet and then a little more for the long haul… close the throttle and then…
Stop the aircraft landing. Try and keep her flying. Thats it.
By doing this, you will keep raising the nose progressively (otherwise known as a flare) and gently touch those rear wheels on.
Tip 3 - Ignore your FPV, DAs, MDHs, instrument approach plates and everything else people have mentioned above. That will come with time and experience.
Hi, by “the circle thing” I assume you mean the FPV (flight path vector) on the HUD(?).
If the FPV is pointed at your desired landing spot, you will arrive at that spot, but only if you maintain the same forward speed relative to vertical speed as you currently have.
Why won’t the FPV always stay on that landing spot in the distance?
Too much or too little energy.
If too little energy you will notice your IAS decreasing - need to add some engine power. Otherwise, your FPV will sink lower.
If too much energy, your IAS will increase (which if excessive, makes landing within a reasonable distance of your aiming point either difficult or impossible). In this case your FPV floats higher.
You need to either decrease engine power (if any), and/or increase drag (to “waist” the extra energy), or go around (sometimes you just have too much energy to dissipate over the remaining distance).
I would ignore AP until you’ve practiced enough manually to internalize the above - basically maintaining a desired IAS down to an aiming point, using pitch, power (and flaps, gear and spoilers for drag).
Ty!
For some reason It’s hard to land the C172, the C208 is ok.
The big aircrafts are easier for me.
But yeah, I’ll practice flaring more etc.
FPV is being used yeah.
Papi is also being used If I see it lol.
Yes, and I would go a step beyond: We can’t really expect to manage automation unless we develop some degree of practiced competence in doing the task manually beforehand.
That’s how we remain the masters of the automation. Which also allows us to use automation to our maximum advantage (increasing safety and efficiency).
There are three main aids I personally use to get to the touchdown zone effectively, which have already been mentioned above, but which I’d like to clarity. These are:
PAPI lights
FPV
Glideslope
For PAPI lights IF only has two sets of two (two on each side of the runway). This means you want to see one red light and one white light on each side of the runway. This will indicate you are on the correct descent path
For the Flight Path Vector (FPV) you want to aim it at the runway aiming points aka the big white rectangles up until just before you begin your flare. This will also help you greatly in crosswind situations, as where your nose is pointing is not necessarily where you want to go.
For ILS approaches you have the Glideslope which gives you an accurate descent path to the runway.
For visual approaches I would suggest tuning into the ILS wherever available especially in airliners as it is one more aid you can use for guidance, and this is how they are generally flown IRL.
One more thing , I would advise you to avoid older aircraft and practise using reworked aircraft as they offer the most accurate physics and profiles. You can read as much as you’d like on landing but the best way to get better is by practising.
TY. Haven’t been manually landing with Glideslope since if ILS is available I use APPR.
I’m not sure how much I’ve checked the G/S earlier when I was overweight for APPR.
I’m focused more on the FPV.
Papi Lights, sometimes there is, sometimes there aren’t. Depending on the airport and maybe I just don’t see them lol
Ok, so it is very important you check the glideslope instead of just relying on the FPV. This is because you can be below glideslope (meaning you are too low and will thus reach the runway at too low of a descent rate) or you can be above glideslope (meaning you are too high and will thus reach the runway at too high of a descent rate) if you rely solely on the FPV to get you to the touchdown zone. Let me know if you need further clarifying
I strongly agree with @Capt_Derek here - while I don’t think any of the advice here is bad, I can’t speak enough to how much really diving in to the C172 will help you everywhere else.
That’s why it’s used so much in the real world as a training platform!
Happy to give ya some tips and tricks for the 172 if you’re interested! I’ve flown it in real world and it’s probably my number 1 in the SIM.
