Lack of patience at EDDF

Hello Everybody.
I was just on the Expert server at EDDF. There is a problem with some pilots. There was no longer an approach controller who initially put me in a holding pattern that I had to exit and go inbound on the ILS. When I was coming inbound, there were about 4 planes coming in on final just below 5000ft and they chose 07R and 07L. I then decided to land on 07C. At about 3500ft, I was established and told the UNICOM I was on final. At about 700-800ft a pilot said he wanted to take off from 07C. His name was Captain Viera I think. When he announced takeoff, I was definitely visible to him and I kept announcing final on 07C. But still he decided to lack PATIENCE and take off. I had to go around and enter right downwind and then had to go around a second time because of another British Airways aircraft. I eventually just ended the flight because there was no point. I was very annoyed.

  • Controllers should try and clear the airspace and ensure all pilots are okay before closing. A suggestion to the controller is don’t start what you can’t finish.
  • Pilots should try and apply PATIENCE by not taking off and holding short when an inbound aircraft is below 1500ft. Obviously if it’s a high airport you have to run the calculation of altitude mentally. But just hold short because it’s literally just a minute of wait time.

Thank you all for reading.


We start and we make sure that the airspace is organized before we shut the frequency down. After that it’s up to you [pilots] to maintain professionalism and realism. IFATC can almost never finish as most bravo’s will keep traffic all day. I understand your point though as this shouldn’t happen on expert. Sorry for the inconvenience


This may come as a surprise, but if we’re open for an hour or more sometimes our real world life comes into play and we need to sign off. Being a controller and helping keep the realism isn’t something one should take for granted. This point you’ve made I don’t agree with but everything else looks good.


My Opinion on this…
Th lack of patience from pilots are a ever increasing issue i’m facing with in recent time. I can agree with you about other pilots doing unprofessional work here especially on Expert where we are supposed to show out outermost perfection. Has happened to me before, people fly above or below you at a greater speed than yours, a greater speed than used for a smooth and safe landing just to compete with you and show that they will land first, they are so much better. Very immature, but there not much we can do when IFATC isn’t in place. They hold the power of ghosting and controlling the airspace.

But secondly…

I do not agree with this. I am not IFATC myself but from what i know when they log in they have to stay the airport for certain amount of time depending on the size/class of the airspace. The bigger the longer is there _minimum_requirement to stay there. And there’s a thing called Life, when that _thing_knocks on your door, you have to answer. So no can do, sorry but IFATC has a life just like yours and mine and IF isn’t all in our life’s. Most of us have a bunch of things to do. We can’t fly and control all day long so, i will excuse them for leaving even if the airspace is in chaos. And lastly, NO! I don’t believe that they leave due to the extreme amount if aircraft, that they get stressed out and therefor bail on us pilots, that is not the case.


I do understand that they have Lives too. In fact whenever they leave, I always tend to watch everyone’s action and professionalism which obviously was on an extremely low end this afternoon.
Probably just said that out of anger because I was really boiling.


Not that I am an exception. I also make mistakes. But to the other pilots that think IF is a joke and you can just magically be a grade 3 pilot and mess it up for other genuine users that are ready for a new challenge everyday they load the app, you should really stop it.
It is an irrational way of thinking🤷🏼‍♀️


I was tower on expert yesterday at EDDF on expert. I can confirm, that due to the pilots with no patience I got almost crazy.
If you have about 70 inbounds and a line at the runways up to the horizon, the last thing you need are pilots cutting the line, requesting take off when 8th in line and exit the runway in the wrong direction.
We really try hard to giving pilots the best experience.
If every pilot would fly with an expert attitude would makes our live much easier.
We provide service for at least an hour. Thereafter normally another IFATC picks up the station. Sometimes real live comes around and stations are not controlled.


And sometimes it’s just the device or server which ends the session.
Yesterday at EDDF my iPad was burning

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It has been quite evident lately (past few months) that pilot patience on the expert server has been decreased. A few days ago I was on final to Heathrow after coming from Perth in a Qantas in a B787-9. I had to make three go-arounds due to aircraft entering the runway, even when I was quite clearly established on the localizer. On my final go-around someone entered the runway without announcing it and took off.

I am an IFATC, and it appears that when a controller is not controlling, it unfortunately transforms from the expert server into training server.


I see your pain, it gets on my nerves also when I see somebody cut in line or enter the runway unauthorised or unannounced. Most likely immature children, with no consideration of others professionalism and the level required for the server. Nothing much we can do about it though.


From my experience, also as a pilot, I unfortunately have to tell you that we can organize the airspace as much as we want before leaving. Once we are gone the airspace can become a mess in a matter of seconds. In your case, i doubt that any command of a controller before leaving would have kept the aircraft taking off from entering the runway. Nor do we have commands to sequence takeoffs for the upcoming 10 minutes neither do these kind of pilots care about other traffic once ATC is gone.

I‘m honestly not surprised that happened yesterday, controlling at EDDM I was kinda shocked (probably rather annoyed) by the lack of maturity of some pilots. The last thing you need when your iPad is lacking from the number of requests are guys requesting everything twice, people who are unable to do a basic final turn on their own discretion or „pilots“ that feel like overtaking people on the grass while there would even be a parallel taxiway. Not surprising that the latter people are getting annoyed and leave when you have them holding short while you let the overtaken people take off first


Oh no there is…
Making expert requirements to be Grade 4 and Grade 5 only

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Grade doesn’t change anything. You never know if the pilots got their grade 5 by professionaly flying on expert for a long time or by flying touch and goes at an excessive speed on casual while cutting other pilots around


Completely true. Grade does nothing say about maturity.


That’s really true. It just gets frustrating when you have to make 3 go arounds??!
Ghosting should be more enforced on these pilots that cut in line or do all that. No need for please follow instructions or else…
Just GHOST them once!💆🏼‍♀️

At least when the ATC’s are present. In the situation where they’re not, we would manage ourselves

Ghosting is another thing. Some do it faster and some not… but all enforcing the same rules.
I’m a positive thinking person. I have no easy trigger finger.
If there is no way out I ghost.
Just keep in mind, that all these people are customers in one way…

Ghosting would help more, when pilots have to contact the responsible IFATC

Yeah I guess it would.

I feel your pain, this isn’t the IFATC controllers fault though. I experienced similar just up the road from EDDF yesterday when a certain someone taxyed through one aircraft and then after parking behind me in a busy queue for a couple of minutes decided to park on me to try and jump the queue. No names mentioned but this screenshot may or may not name and shame.

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