Kai_Jessat's ATC Tracking Thread - [CLOSED] @ N/A

Hey guys, I have my ATC exam in 2weeks but I’m still a bit struggling with sequences. If you have some free time please join me at EDDT to do some pattern work at I’ll be controlling there.
Thanks guys 🙏
All feedback will be very much appreciated

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Hey, Kai! I’d love to drop by! Gimme a minute here while I get set up.

Very much appreciated 🙏

Coming. I’ll be N299AT.

Thanks man 🙏🙏

Thank you very much 🙏 any feedback very welcomed

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Any feedback would be really helpful 🙏

Just a few things, but overall it was great.

-Sequence on the first t&g was incorrect, Danny was doing a transition, and wasn’t in the pattern, making me #2, not 3.

-When I requested runway change, you first sequenced me incorrectly (#1), but then gave me number 2. I’m not going to get into detail as Danny did the same thing and you did it 100% correct with him, so you know how to deal with runway changes with 2 planes on upwind.

-This is picky, but quicker instructions would’ve been nice for when I was on the ground.

Great job realizing what you had to work on and how to fix it, it is a critical skill in life, and will help to expedite your training. Once again, you did really well today. I’m not always on call, but if I check and see you’re open, I’ll definitely stop by, so feel free to tag me.

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Thank you I really appreciate it. I know some instructions were pretty slow today but promise next time they’ll be faster :)
Thanks again and have a great day (or night)
🙏😊

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Good work today! You are almost there; some things just need a little bit of work until you will be ready to take the test.

The feedback below has Zulu time stamps attached which are also visible in your replay – use it to your advantage!


19:13 – D-4NNY requested a transition; 3,000ft would have been preferred over 2,500ft. He was then sequenced even though he never called in. This affected all other sequences since you treated him as in the pattern.

19:14 – Very late clearance for N15LC, almost went around.

19:16 – D-4NNY called in at this point and was cleared with no pattern entry.

19:18 – Great “please check assigned runway” to D-4NNY.

19:21 – N299AT request a runway change while on 26L upwind with D-4NNY on 26R upwind. They got only a sequence and clearance, no pattern entry.

19:25 – D-4NNY requested a runway change while on 26R upwind with N15LC on 26L upwind. He got a pattern entry but conflicted with N15LC.

19:26 – Nice traffic alert; they should be sent to all parties involved in the conflict if the controller is able.

19:26 – D-4NNY received a clearance without a “make left traffic”.

19:31 – N15LC’s go around could have been sent earlier. A “make left traffic” should have been attached, rather than a “make right traffic” which cause a conflict between N15LC and N299AT.


Overall Feedback

  • Remember to round up when calculating transitions. More information can be found here.

  • Make sure to always give pattern entries and sequences (if applicable). A great video that personally helped me during training can be found here.

  • When an aircraft requests a runway change on upwind and another aircraft is on the adjacent upwind, I’d suggest using “extend upwind, I’ll call your crosswind”. Once the adjacent aircraft has turned crosswind, you can turn the other and sequence them behind the first. More information on runway changes can be found here.

  • Be sure you know which way to send pilots after go arounds. Try to avoid sending them over the other pattern, as this can cause conflicts. More information on go arounds can be found here.


Again, you did well this session. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to message me either in this thread or via PM.

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Hey, Kai! Thanks for opening up for us today. Here’s my feedback.

  • At 19:12:57Z, the transition altitude for me was low. Berlin-Tegel is at 122ft above MSL, so the transition altitude would have to be 3000ft as a minimum. The formula for calculating transition altitudes in Infinite Flight is airport elevation + 2500ft. We use the 2500ft because it provides us separation from other traffic in the pattern. Jets will fly at 1500ft AAL, and props will fly at 1000ft AAL, hence, 2500ft on top of airport elevation. So, 122 + 2500ft is 2622ft, which we round up to 3000ft. There are a few exceptions to the rounding up rule. If the airport elevation is say, 50ft (or lower), then you don’t necessarily have to round it up. You can just issue 2500ft as the transition altitude in that case; however, you may still round up if you’d like! Section 3.4 of the manual explains transitions.
  • At 19:13:11Z, you gave me a sequence. I hadn’t called inbound, nor was I in the pattern. If an aircraft requests transition, just let them do their thing until they request something else later on. There’s no need to sequence them or give them a pattern entry/clearance. More info on sequencing can be found in Section 3.3 of the manual
  • When I called inbound, you simply cleared me for the option at 19:14:46Z. When there’s no radar, all inbound aircraft require a pattern entry, sequence (if applicable), and then a clearance, in that order. If radar is present, aircraft cleared for the ILS/GPS simply require a landing clearance. Aircraft cleared for the visual will need a sequence, and then a clearance. Aircraft that are Radar Vectors (RV) or Flight Following (FF) should be treated like aircraft flying inbound without radar. Pattern entry, sequence, and then clear. Section 3.6 of the manual cover this.
  • To add on to the above, N299AT was originally supposed to follow me had I gone to 26L, but since I went to 26R, you should resequence them to number two, since they’re no longer following the original aircraft they were following.
  • Good job noticing I was aligned with the wrong runway at 19:18:05Z.
  • For N299AT’s runway change at 19:21:15Z, you should have done the following: have N299AT extend their upwind, and then once I’ve turned onto the downwind/am clear of potential conflict, tell N299AT the following: “enter right downwind 26R, number 2, traffic to follow is on right downwind.” I say enter right downwind because you should keep all aircraft going to the runway on the right on the right downwind, and all aircraft going to the runway on the left downwind. This helps you keep track of everyone, and it helps the pilots have a clear sense of who to follow. Also, remember, runway changes require a pattern entry, sequence, and then a clearance. The reason extend upwind is used is because we’re side-by-side. Don’t clear them immediately. Runway changes are also explained in Section 3.3 of the manual.
  • You did great resequencing N299AT once I turned in front of them. However, they don’t need another clearance as number two at 19:22:51Z. A resequence is all that’s needed if the landing order changes.
  • Nice idea of having me go to the left downwind for 26L on my runway change at 19:26:21Z. However, as said above, extend upwind should’ve been used for me. Because it wasn’t, I lost separation with N15LC. Nice job, however, on having them check traffic. I would’ve also had them do a right 360 (away from the airport) to create more spacing between the two of us.
  • On my clearance for 26L at 19:27:46Z, I wasn’t given a traffic direction. If I go to a new runway, I need a new traffic direction.
  • Good call on the go-around for N15LC at 19:31:03Z. However, they should’ve been told to make left traffic, since they were on 26L originally.
  • Late runway exit for me at 19:31:37Z. Try to issue it around 70kts GS for jets if possible, and 30-50 GS for props (dependent on aircraft). Section 3.5 of the manual explains runway exits a bit. However, always prioritize go-arounds over runway exits (like you did today).

The start was a bit shaky, but you definitely improved towards the end. I think you have the conceptual knowledge down for the most part (some bits might need a revisit, but it’s not a lot). Just do some more physical practice in these two weeks, and hopefully you’ll be good to go. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, concerns, or would like some clarification!

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No worries on the instructions, but being efficient is key. Enjoy your day, and I look forward to coming again! (Just FYI it’s day for me right now😂)

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Thank you so much this is insane feedback which will keep me very busy for the next days
Thanks so much 🙏

Thank you again this feedback is so so helpful.

00:10 for me 😂

Hello. I can’t currently come (at the gym lol) but would you mind tagging me when your open so i can try and come?

Will do bro thanks for stopping by 🙏

cheers mate!

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Oh wow, stayed up late then

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Every day 😂

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