Jlewis's ATC Tracking Thread - [CLOSED] @ N/A


I plan to soon try again for IFATC, and just re-read the manual.
Please feel free to head over to Tel Aviv and provide some feedback.


Expert Server? right

Training. I’m not qualified yet, which is why I’m seeking feedback.

Okay mate i will come for approach.

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I recommend that you don’t. If you take approach, all he has to do is clear aircraft to land and to takeoff, meaning it won’t help him improve. The goal of tracking threads is to help prepare you for IFATC, and if you make it easier for him by taking approach he won’t be able to practice anything such as sequencing or pattern work.

Now open in Tel Aviv.

  • transition altitude was much too high. Transition altitude is given at 2500 feetAAL. Since LLBG is at 100 feet, 2500+100=2600 rounding down to 2500, so my transition should have been given at 2500. The reason for this is because pattern altitude for jets is 1500 feet, and 1000 feet separation is required. You cleared me at 5000, which is above the airspace, and you never clear above the airspace. The only exception to clearing higher than 2500 is if you see aircraft that are higher and could be a potential conflict (E.G. another aircraft requesting a transition at the same time then you could clear 1000 feet higher) but that is usually quite rare.
  • direction of traffic was given at the wrong times. When I called inbound after the transition, you cleared me for the option, but didn’t give me a direction of traffic in the clearance. You need to say “after the option, make left traffic” as I haven’t been given one yet. But, the stranger thing is, you gave me the direction of traffic when I didn’t need it. Technically, my second clearance did need one as you didn’t give me one the first time, but my third clearance didn’t. You told me “ after the option, make left traffic” on my second clearance, so because you told me on my second clearance you don’t need to tell me the third time. This applies for takeoff clearances to because when you clear an aircraft, you say “make right/left traffic”, so you wouldn’t need to include the direction of traffic in the clearance again, unless you want them to change their direction. So basically, when I did need one you didn’t give me one, and when I didn’t need one you did give me one. More information here:
  • there was no need to clear Aeroflot 505 for immediate takeoff. I think the reason you did it was because I was landing on an intersecting runway, but I was still 5nm away leaving plenty of time for him to takeoff. 2-3NM would be more like an immediate takeoff.
  • runway changes were handled very nicely

Overall, it was not bad. Clearances were given at the right time, runway changes were good, you were just over controlling slightly.

Hi, thanks so much for coming and the advice.

Point 1: Thanks. I just re-read that section of the manual and have now ‘got it’.
Point 2: Yes, I realised I forgot to do it after I gave you the clearance. I thought that doing a correction and then resending clearance with direction would be a bit too much, but is that what I should have done? Re giving directions for each pattern, thanks for the link to the explainer. The manual could be updated to explicitly say that, as it’s currently only implied.
Point 3: Yes your analysis is right, I will limit immediate take off to 2-3NM from now on
Point 4: Thanks.

Overall, thanks!

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Well, technically you were correct to do that the second time as you didn’t give me one the first time, but the third time definitely didn’t need one.

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I took off from Tel Aviv about 50 minutes ago. My callsign was Aeroflot 505

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No but I mean when I forgot the first time, should I have done a correction and re-sent clearance with ‘make left traffic’? Irrespective of my subsequent mistake.

Thanks, hope you have a nice flight. Any feedback?

Thank you! You gave me correct clearances and did awesome overall. You also told me to cross runway 21 before I’d noticed I was about to cross it, so thank you so much for that.

Yes, you should have. When you make a mistake, always send a correction. Another thing not to do when you make a mistake, send the message you meant to send the first time without sending a correction message, as that can often lead to confusion.

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Can we post ATC tracking thread of TS here?

No, if you want to make one post it in ATC. Don’t post it in this thread.

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Ye IK that but I didn’t know that we can post TS threads

Terrific, thanks.

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Cool, thanks!

Hi, I just spawned to fly for you at LLBG, but there was no ATC there.
To avoid the risk of wasting helping pilots’ time, can you please make sure you keep the title of your tracking thread up to date?

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