[I'm Sure This Will Be Closed Post Haste, But] If RW Procedures Are Your Bag....

…if using 08L/26R at EGKK gives you an aneurysm, maybe also consider that in the real world:

They don’t have 45 jets in a 10 nm radius flying at 349 knots at the time.

No one takes off from next door in a 388 asking to be shoved into line in front of 10 other jets.

No one has a single-waypoint flight plan from KJFK to VHHH.

No one flies Cessna patterns at EGLL during peak hours.

No one flies straight through other planes.

No one taxis straight through the terminal at 50 knots to beat another plane to the runway.

No one flies a 737 at FL450 with 106% N1.

No one lands against the flow of traffic because they can’t be bothered to fly an extra downwind.

No one is still at FL240 5 miles from intercept.

No one creates their flight plan while holding short of the runway or pushed back behind two other planes who have to hold position the entire time.

No one gets to fly an A388 without the slightest clue as to how to communicate with ATC.

No one flies 240 knots on a 2-mile final.

No one simply enters the runway without permission or starts taxiing whenever they please.

No one flies not knowing the proper flight levels for eastbound and westbound travel.

No one climbs to FL340 on a 50 nm flight.

No one in an A388 asks for VFR flight.

No one tells the departure controller they are ‘unable’ to avoid flying straight through another plane.

No one climbs at 7000 FPM, or descends at 3000 FPM at M0.88.

No one flies a commercial route without a detailed flight plan which utilizes airways or without followong the altitude and speed restrictions on the IAPs.

We try to stick to real-world procedures as best we can. But sometimes it is simply not possible.

Why? Because while this is a sim, as you can tell from the long list above, we aren’t dealing with real-world pilots.

Gatwick had no clearance delivery working today in IF. If it bothers you too much, fly somewhere else. But there are plenty of things that IFATC allows that stray far from real-world procedures.

So let pilots stick to flying as professionally as possible and let IFATC deal with traffic as efficiently as possible. With an unrealistic volume of traffic, we may have to make concessions to real-world procedures.

Everyone has a heart attack about a runway which is actually a taxiway or the wrong livery at the wrong airport, all the while committing any number of the above infractions which are a whole lot more meaningful.

If you’re that concerned about real-world procedures, perhaps ghostings are in order for 388s with filed flight plans requesting VFR flight. Maybe flying around the globe with a single-waypoint flight plan should earn you a vacation?

We know the real-world procedures. Sometimes it isn’t possible, because 5 pilots just took off in Triple-7s from EGLC bound for EGLL.

It goes both ways. And as you can see, the scale is quite heavily tilted in one direction.

I’m sorry. Just think about the enormous list of things on the piloting end before you worry about whether your home airport is using slightly different procedures because traffic volume is entirely unrealistic, as is pilot behavior.


Wait so what is this topic about besides deciding if you will have an aneurysm over EGKK? Does this happen equally amount on Expert server?


All I have to say to this is…

Challenge accepted


There’s your checklist :)


Lol go play TS1 Bingo with the list

And few more to add
No plane waits 2 metres behind a jet plane
No plane taxies with strobes on conscientiously


Seriously, that was really well said! 100% supportive of your point.


As much as I appreciate your post, and I do agree with both statements above, it is a bit of an over stretch, in my opinion.
I do think that all expert server pilots should definitely file flight plans, and should probably use tools like SimBrief almost, if not all of the time. However, sometimes there are limitations.
For example, waypoints that simply do not exist. The other day I did a short flight, not more than 1 hour and 20 minutes. I used SimBrief to do the flight planning in basically every aspect. Cruising level, speed and route. However, of the maybe 15 waypoints in the flight plan, only 2 were in the sim. I did that flight anyways, but just a thing that I think is important to consider. Regarding the altitudes, I 100% rely on SimBrief for cruising altitudes ever since global came out. I am aware that it is possible that they aren’t accurate though, but is it a big deal? Sure, maybe on a crowded airspace in can get confusing or something, but cruising above Pakistan alone, does it even matter? I wouldn’t be doing anything ridiculous too. Mach .84 on a 787 at FL390. Not being obviously crazy or anything, just cruising 1000 feet above what is supposed to be the correct altitude for IF because a tool that by far gives more realism than it takes away said it would be the right thing to do.

I am not saying that your statements are wrong, or that they shouldn’t be on the community, I am just saying that it is a bit of an exaggeration asking everyone to have a detailed flight plan with flight levels, waypoints and speed restrictions in mind at all times. There are limitations, not because I am trying to make everyone’s job harder, but because it is a mobile flight simulator.

Am I missing something? Am I wrong? Please tell me if any of the answers to those questions is yes, because I am not an ATC expert or anything, I am just an avgeek doing my best to fly this sim as realistically as practically possible.


I get you. But you get the main point.

You don’t fly around the world as if it were flat. At least put some effort into planning.

If you’re not strictly on J40 from KBOS-KATL, I can live with that. And I know a lot of the STAR waypoints aren’t there.

The main thrust of the argument is that you don’t have a single waypoint flight plan. It doesn’t have to be perfect.

But the major point is don’t cry realism on minutae and ignore anything actually flight related.


Word of note- this is 0.0001% of the things we endure every day. It’s not fun for us when pilots complain about controlling etiquette while we have those things to deal with.

I’m not going to listen to you if you’re one of those guys who can’t comprehend basic commands or say “with you” every two minutes if you think I’ve forgotten about you. Not happening. Period.


I am going to preach this to everyone I know on IFC!

I don’t know what to say other than Tim, this is a safe space and let it out. Group hug. (hangs intervention banner)

My wife has heard me yell all of those things while controlling.

To give some context around the 08L/26R issue for those new to the community and confused… Almost every time the airport is open, someone will post a message stating that 08L/26R are not used in real life as a runway but as a taxiway. In IF they are marked as a runway except for the lack of a hold short line. Tim’s post was as a response to those who complain that ATC does not follow real world procedures. Well done Tim. Again, this is a safe space and you can talk to us.


This is a checklist of the things I see on the training server.


Well written Tim. Nice. Applies a lot for @anon66442947


I can’t lie…
I’ve disregarded everything listed once or twice…

Other than the global announcement posts made by the devs/staff, this has got to be one of the best and most accurate threads out there. Well done! 👏🏼


Totaly agree on this. I find it weird see planes flying long haul with a single waypoint.

Good point and I hope that is more TS1 then on Expert…however I couldn’t say that for certain with hand on heart sadly.

However those of us who care about the correct use of 08L/26R at EGKK will also (or most likely) be those who all ready understand your lost and not do them.

…or switches on strobes and landing lights before pushback.


I don’t see the problem with this.

@dush19 missing from this wonderful list is flying and drinking 🍺. You should know better but since this is a Sim, I guess it’s acceptable.