IF_International's ATC Tracking Thread - [CLOSED] @ N/A

Hi everyone, this is my new ATC tracking thread. I flagged the last one for closure since the previous one was too old for me to edit.
As I have mentioned before, the purpose for an ATC thread is for me to practice my skills on the training server before taking the IFATC test later this year as I am planning to join.

All sessions will be conducted on the training server, and frequencies will usually be Ground and Tower, if an airport does not have Ground, I will be doing Tower only.

Details for each training session will be posted on this thread, with an ATIS for essential airfield information.


Time: 2045Z
Server: Training
Frequencies: Ground and Tower, SBGR
ATIS: Guarulhos airport, ATIS information ALPHA, time 2000Z, wind 190@5 visibility 10, temperature 17 Dew point 14, QNH 1023. Departing runway 27R, landing runway 27L. Advise on initial contact, you have information ALPHA.

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I’ll come by :)

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I’ll come by :)

LOL I swear I wasn’t trying to copy the guy up there ^

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Level 3 violation for copying me lmao

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I’ll come by :)

I’ll stop by too 🙂

@TheGlobalAviator better to make right traffic on a R runway

Transition is airport altitude rounded up to the nearest 500 plus 2500

Better to let him control, provide any constructive feedback later.

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Left traffic if entering the aircraft into the pattern for the L. R was being used for departures only. ← Correcting myself here. Refer to comments by @nicopizarro for excellent advice about patterns.

@TheGlobalAviator I’m still in training myself, so I don’t feel confident enough to give you a bunch of specific pointers. I can mention a couple things, but I strongly recommend you join the IFATC training program, as the feedback I get from that helps me a lot.

  • I waited several minutes and called at least 4 times to get taxi clearance.
  • I could be wrong, but I believe when an aircraft calls ready for departure, they should not be ignored until given clearance. They should be instructed to hold short of the runway (or LUAW) and given a sequence… I believe. I could be wrong and would love to be corrected if so.
  • I think you were much smoother when you found your groove, but it seems to me like you should keep practicing to get more comfortable managing the workload.

Great job! Hope to see you progress even further!

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True. I know I messed up a bit at first, but in the last 10 minutes or so it went much smoother.
Thanks for the feedback!
I will continue practicing.

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Hey there, thanks for the service - would you prefer feedback here or via PM

Callsign F-OGGY

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Both are fine with me - it’s up to you!

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@VegasKing by the way, how did you think of my pattern instructions/entries? Since I have received feedback (before, old topic) that I actually forgot to issue a pattern entry for a new RW… I hope I got it right this time

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Hi, here’s my feedback for you based on the replay timeline so you can also look back…

[ 00:06:50]
You could have given me a taxi clearance and a ‘Give way to aircraft on your Right’ following my taxi request, this meant I could wait for ST-ARZ to pass and then commence my taxi to 27R. Just helps keep ground moving and gives you one less thing to worry about

[00:07:49]
South West 702VA requesting taxi as I was pulling out so again, you could have issued a taxi clearance and a ‘Give Way to aircraft on your right’ to keep ground traffic moving and let you focus on the departures etc

[00:12:20]
An opportunity here for a LUAW once Turkish 645 had started take off roll, no other inbounds on 27R at that time

[00:13:15]
You cleared me for takeoff with left traffic. This would put me in conflict with traffic using 27L. Notably @nicopizarro 😄 Would be best using right traffic for 27R and left traffic for 27L in this scenario. As such I had to enter a right downwind.

After this I announced I was ‘Right Downwind’ but didn’t receive any further instructions. Believe you had some connectivity issues though

[00:23:55]
Announced inbound for landing 27R on a 3nm Final you gave me a ‘Enter Straight In 27L’ but no clearance so had to Go Around. If you had given me 27R and Cleared me to Land then all would be well.

Hope the above is useful, keep it up and will try and make your next session

Yes, I did
Thanks for the tip, will do next time!

Oh actually I wanted to use separate runways for take-off and landings… That didn’t quite work

Best option in that particular scenario then would have been to clear me right traffic on takeoff to avoid said conflict, then issue a new pattern entry of ‘Enter Right Downwind 27L’ and sequence me behind the base or final traffic on 27L

Then you would clear me for the option on 27L and to make left traffic

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Yes I only thought of that after I finished…

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Hello!
Thank you for the service. I have some feedback and advice for you.


Feedback:

(See below for advice regarding each situation)

  • [20:55z] - Unnecessary pattern entry for I-FATC.
  • [20:57z] - Incorrect pattern entry for CC-NPR.
  • [20:57z] - Unnecessary traffic direction on clearance for I-FATC.
  • [20:58z] - Unsuitable traffic direction for ST-ARZ.
  • [20:59z] - Unnecessary second pattern entry for CC-NPR.
  • [21:00z] - Unnecessary traffic direction on clearance for CC-NPR.
  • [21:01z] - Unnecessary pattern entry for ST-ARZ.
  • [21:02z] - Unsuitable traffic direction for F-OGGY.
  • [21:03z] - Avoidable upwind conflict with F-OGGY.
  • [21:03z] - Unsuitable traffic direction for Southwest 702VA.
  • [21:04z] - Unnecessary pattern entry for CC-NPR.
  • [21:05z] - Unsuitable traffic direction for N23UD.
  • [21:06z] - Unnecessary pattern entry for Southwest 702VA.
  • [21:07z] - Unnecessary traffic direction on clearance for CC-NPR.
  • [21:07z] - F-OGGY didn’t receive a clearance.
  • [21:08z] - Unnecessary “adjust speed to follow aircraft ahead”.
  • [21:09z] - Unnecessary traffic direction on clearance for Southwest 702VA.
  • [21:11z] - CC-NPR didn’t received a “Exit Runway” instruction.
  • [21:11z] - Missed Southwest 702VA Go-Around instruction on R27L.

Advice:

  • When an aircraft requests take-off (Remaining in the pattern), a pattern direction must be given (do not confuse with pattern entry). This will indicate the pilot which runway should be used to fly the pattern. Along with that, make sure to use both downwinds, it will help you a lot to order your pattern into two different runways.

  • Since CC-NPR was already on Right Downwind, instructing him to enter left downwind was not necessary. Again, make sure to use both downwinds and runways.

  • Traffic direction (Left/Right Traffic) needs to be issued for aircraft that are inbound, on runway change and take-off clearance only.

  • Pattern entries aren’t sequencing, they are different commands. What you did was to send sequences through the pattern entry. You can find numbers to assign aircrafts in the “Sequencing” tab.

  • For better pattern management, you should be using both runways (right and left) for arrivals. Having all your departures use left downwind isn’t the best way to handle traffic as many conflicts may raise.

  • The clear example of what I said above, was the conflict on upwind with F-OGGY. As he was given left traffic, we could have collided. Not sure why he did right traffic, but lucky you.

  • Only one pattern entry is needed for the aircraft to enter the pattern, no need to send a second pattern entry on an updated aircraft position.

  • Only use speed commands when necessary, like what you did on final with Southwest 702VA. Remember that pilots should fly at responsible speeds and maintain proper spacing.

  • Remember that aircrafts should be given a runway exit instruction when they land. For jets try to give it between 70-60 knots and 40-30 knots for propellers.

  • Always be pending on your runways finals and make sure that the minimum separation will be ensured. If it’s not granted, a go around must be issued.


Although the feedback above might say the contrary, it was a good first session. Solid sequencing skills and an accurate transition altitude. The two main issues you’re having now, is that you’re mixing both concepts: pattern entry & sequence; and abusing of a single downwind and runway.


Let me know if you have any doubts, I’ll be happy to help.
Cheers,
Nico

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