So, I was arriving into Boston today and we were on a Unicom(because no ATC was active), and I was on right base for runway 22L. Another pilot, @IF_Aviator, was on left base left downwind for runway 22L. Since I was ahead of him, I was going to join the final for runway 22L first, and I expected him to join the final behind me, while maintaining adequate aircraft separation. Unfortunately, I turned onto a very early right base, cut me off, and joined the final in front of me, forcing me to make a 360 to maintain separation. Who is in the right here, and did I do the right thing?
Generally, you were first so you would have had the right to land the first in my opinion. Especially on Unicom, these automatic behaviors allow for a better traffic in times without ATC.
Since you were first l, you are in the right to land, so the other player is in the wrong (Assuming he was flying VFR) and not following a FPL.
Firstly, it would probably be best in future to reach out to the other pilot via PM in a polite and professional manner to gain a better understanding of their side of the story and situation.
Secondly and to answer your question, from what you have mentioned it sounds like you were first in sequence and the other pilot should of flown to sequence in behind you.
If you are cut off on final, instead of doing a 360 to maintain separation, it is best to execute a go around by climbing to pattern altitude and maintaining runway heading before making a turn to re-join downwind for the airport. The latest you should be doing a 360 to maintain separation would be on downwind.
Hello! To what I can conclude both of you have some things that should be worked on!
First, referencing what you said regarding a right base 22L. Most ideally, you should be on a left base for 22L due to crossing the extended localizer is not proficient. Based in the incoming aircraft enter the sequence, in this case I would “manually” vector extended south or north of the airport to intercept a left downwind, 22L. If traffic was less that 5NM complete a right 360 in the pattern. When on final, the sequence should be set (5NM spacing) to intercept the localizer at an appropriate distance with traffic. Also, be aware traffic on ILS Final needs additional space.
Second, the aircraft that is first in sequence has the right of way, if you were in the pattern enter 45 degrees to left downwind, you would be first in sequence. Cutting off someone by a extended downwind is unprofessional and poor behavior. For both of you, the aircraft ahead is Number 1, this does not mean overtaking to Number 1 when turning final!
If you want more in depth explanation, PM me!
Who was lower? It’s kind of hard to see who was right and who was wrong here, but I’m glad you took the action to maintain separation and do a 360.
I ask who was lower cause IRL, the lower aircraft has the right of way (Unless using it for an advantage). Just a cool way to incorporate some realism into it but it’s also always my thinking when using IF.
This generally applies when IFR flying at higher altitudes, lower aircraft in this case donor really have the right of way to what I can tell.
Correction: This usually applies in IFR and VFR when cruising. This method is unrealizable do to different airplanes having different altitude restrictions etc.
Not necessarily the first (closest to the airport) but whoever have the lowest altitude have the right of way - well said @AviationReports
I learnt the hard way when someone below me even I am ahead speeding away & started descending reported me due to lvl 2 violation separation rules of 3nm/1000ft - kinda hard to see when the plane is behind me!
Btw no active ATC😒
FAR 91.113 paragraph (g)
“ When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.”
Here, found the 91.113 Right of Way Rules online.
I actually think this is a valuable document for everyone reading this topic should look it. We see separation lost in cruise, landing, descent, and everything in between. I think if people read this they would know how to react if they saw an aircraft on a converging path and the argument of who has the right of way would be less.
That’s true, however, in an ideal world a sequence would be set up. If the aircraft at a lower altitude was Number 2 then that aircraft is not allowed to overtake. The whole idea around this is aircraft that are lower are usually slower, slower aircrafts have the right of way. So… in this case that rule would apply, but this scenario has problems in itself. Aircraft should be on a left downwind for 22L cruising the extended localizer is bit ideal.
Hence why the FAR states…
An aircraft number 2 but lower in a set sequence would be breaking this rule.
I don’t see an issue with an aircraft on a right downwind using 22L. There is no rule saying it cannot use it and frankly is a common occurrence and many airports using parallel runways. At the same time, this rule isn’t applied set in stone in IF, which makes it hard to enforce as well.
Think of it as this:
There is two parallel runways (22Lnfor landing and 22R for departures). At an uncontrolled airspace the standard traffic pattern is left traffic for 22L if IFR aircrafts are coming in to land they need to set up, which often requires an extended downwind. During heavy traffic, the aircraft will be at separation minimums, if someone is not following standard traffic operation, it will be impossible to merge on final. Many times, is left traffic pattern is full you would use an right downwind and land 22R. To clarify, in this case traffic was minimal so I agree being on a right downwind for 22R is fine but other times adjusting may be necessary.
I’d have to check my replay.
Now this is my type of topic. Lets break it down. For the sake of this argument, we’re going to assume that, in real life, the control tower was destroyed, and the airspace was reverted to uncontrolled class G, fitting a scenario you found in the sim. Now, as you both approach Class G KBOS, you (being a dutiful pilot) would reference page 124 of the FAA Chart Supplement for the Northeast United States. You’d note that nowhere in that document is there a specification for non-standard right traffic, meaning you should make a standard entry to a left downwind for runway 22. Had you done this, the aircraft would have been linearly sequenced and there would be no question as to the right of way. If you made left traffic, but still there was not enough spacing, you have the option of making left traffic to 22R by extending your base, or you could perform a go-around.