Dear aviators and hope as well as ATC at JFK on 05:30Z 24th June
I got taxi instruction to depart from RWY31L via K(red line in chart in attch.), however I had heavy loading and fuel onboard to set off a 15hr flight to Taipei. What I really need is full RWY to depart that should continue taxi via J to the end of RWY(yellowline in chart in attch).
I knew ATC gave me a shortcut, but I have no choice to denied the assignment what ATC instructed or tell them I need full RWY, EVEN I MENTIONED RQST CROSS RWY 22R wish he or she could realized I need cross 22R and to use full 31L for heavy departure, but the reply was an alert, I afraid to got ghost, so only take off in a hazardous condition.
ANYONE HAVE ANY SUGGESTION TO LET ATC KNOW MY REQUIREMENT? OR CAN ONLY WAIT DEVELP. TEAM ADD MORE CHOICE IN ATC COMMUNICATION
Honestly I’d say don’t do that at an airport with access to the full length via taxiways, EVEN if ATC gave you an intersection T/O.
The first sentence in that paragraph is the important bit:
“IF the ONLY option to access the full length runway is to back taxi” - this is not the case at JFK & you can imagine what the controllers will do when you start rolling the wrong way down the rwy
While giving rnway assignments,the atc in most cases will consider your aircraft type and whether you are heavy or not based on your fpl and given that you use “heavy” suffix correctly.
Yes intersection departures are very common specially when there is a long departure queue
and as the reply above states almost all heavies can takeoff from that intersection at jfk comfortably
Just keep in mind :
Pick the correct takeoff thrust settings and consider effective rnway length while doing that
(for instance you might not want to use dto-2 on this one if you are above mtow)
And ofc you can backtaxi if “absolutely necessary”
At the time RWY 31L is light tailwind, in real world at the same time JL3 BR31 CX843 were also required full RWY for longhaul back to asia because of heavy fuel onboard
i think that in the real world aviation multiple factors are at play while deciding these things , the effective length from the k intersection should be around 11000 ft and the only time that might not be enough is when temperature gets too hot , airport is at an elevation which ultimately effects pressure or when there is a strong tailwind component
Now another thing in real life aviation is reduced thrust takeoffs in order to preserve engine life
And thus pilots might request for a full rnway use
However that option is not yet available in the sim
so , as i said above feel free to use the back taxi option if the atc is insisting on a intersection departure and you deem the effective rnway length NOT ENOUGH under current conditions
That is upto your takeoff performance calculations and your discretion
Also i want to assure you that we take into account the irl procedures in use at the time while we control the airports in sim
The weight I depart can only use D-TO, and I reach VR almost on aimpoint mark for 13R, I may do baketurn nexttime if has similar situation thanks for ur suggestions
Keep in mind, in real life, there is a possibility of engine failure. Take-off configuration (thrust, flap, intersection departure, etc) is selected considering that. There is no possibility of engine failure in IF, you should have enough runway length.
While it is true that those aircraft used the full length, multiple heavy aircraft from for example Qatar Cargo, Korean Air, Norse, Turkish Airlines and more used 31L at KE (which is even shorter) not long before this. To give a specific example, 4 minutes before you got your taxi clearance, a Qatar Airways A350-900 departed 31L at KE. And considering all the extra requirements real life performance calculations take into account (for example engine failures like polaris-14 mentioned), you should be able to lift off 31L at K with plenty of runway to spare.
I also want to mention that using 31L full length is problematic when 22L arrivals are in use because of taxi conflicts. Hence why K and KE are heavily used in real life. If 22L wasn’t in use, all departures would use full length.
Hi there, I was the controller at JFK yesterday and I would have the answer to why I gave you an intersection departure specifically. I was running 22R and 31L departures, the intent being that 31L was for smaller aircrafts and 22R full length was used for larger aircrafts. (This is fairly common at JFK.)
When running 31L, 22s operations, JFK irl uses 31L at KE to prevent runway crossings on takeoff with the arriving or taking off traffic on 22s.
Following on to what everyone else has said, solutions could be to either back-taxi or to request a 22R departure instead (as far as I remember without watching the replay, I think you requested 31L).
(In low traffic level situations, if you didn’t request a runway and I gave you a runway you didn’t want, it’s worth a shot to re-request and see if the controller will accommodate you, especially if the ATIS is supporting what you requested.)
PS: @aatogamer also makes a valid point on this and that as far as I know, only 380s and maybe 777s will need a full length departure(in which case 4/22 should be used under intersections).
PS 2: I personally don’t PFIR CUG someone going wrong way down the runway until they are accelerating through 30 knots.
