How is this violation/report policy fair?

The ghosting appeal FAQ contains this: “Anything that happens while you are away from your device may not be reviewed.”

I understand this rule is mainly about flying into approach airspace using IFA or cruising below 18000ft. However I don’t think a blanket rule is a good idea in any circumstance.

Back in the days, there were quite a lot of topics about AP disconnecting midflight. Now if you are cruising with 100% thrust and stall out, that’s your fault. However there are some other reasons for AP to disengage midflight unpredictably. For example, the A380 autopilot is too gentle, and can stall out in a turn.

If AP disconnects midflight, you will probably start getting violations pretty quickly, and be kicked off the server. This won’t be a problem in the next update anymore. However, if you are unlucky, and AP disconnects over approach airspace, you could get ghosted.

I think the appeal policy should be changed so that any violations caused by bugs in the game, even if the pilot is not at the device, can bereversed. Otherwise at least ATC should not be ghosting planes that are clearly out of control.

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And how do you make sure that this is true? We can’t look through people’s cameras to see if they are at their device or not. Everyone would be making the excuse they weren’t at their device if this were to come into play.

When your talking to ATC you are in their airspace so it’s your responsibility to make sure your flight is going good and you should be at your device at all times during this. It’s your job to remain in control of your aircraft when talking to ATC as you are the pilot in command.

The system we have now is if you can prove there is a fault with the app it gets reversed as it isn’t pilot error. I’m not sure how that’s not fair. It’s the pilots job to make sure everything is set up properly during flight so you won’t receive a violation.

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The whole premise of the post is: A pilot is cruising. AP somehow disconnects bexause the AP messes up. The plane falls below 1800ft and right into approach airspace. Approach ghosts the pilot. I don’t think such a ghost is fair.

About knowing if pilot is at controls, I think the new vio system blog post implied that ATC will be able to tellyour last time of interaction.

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If your able to prove that it was caused by an app bug it will get reversed indefinitely as it wasn’t pilot error and an issue with the app itself.

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Is it considered an app error if AP disengages mid flight for some random reason (eg. turbulence, turns)?

Well turbulence isn’t really an issue with the app as it is received by a source and then shown in IF. The violation would still stand as your the pilot who is supposed to check weather and if it’ll interfere with your flight routing. This is very uncommon though. If turbulence violates autopilot flight parameters you shouldn’t even be flying in it in the first place and that’s on the pilot.

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Would you still agree with me that, no matter what the cause is, being unlucky and having AP disconnect over ATC airspace should not result in a ghost?

The ghost would be removed if they were to receive a ghost and it was not pilot error but an app bug that caused this to occur resulting in a ghost like you said. It would be justified.

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Nope. That’s fair. A/P has to be set up properly by the pilot for this to not happen. If this is happening to you - then you clearly are setting it up wrong.

The A380 will only stall out on a turn if you are climbing too fast or cruising too high for your current weight. It is quite a slow-to-respond aircraft because it is so big.

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Is this a hypothetical scenario you’re discussing or did you have this happen to you? If it happened, what does the replay show?

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The way the policy is written is that it may be reversed if you have proof. If you have video proof that your AP turned off mid-flight it can be looked into. I can tell you that almost all cases that I investigate where people claim AP turned off was due to:

  • Not setting an alt in AP and the plane was in an unrestricted climb. The plane stalled and AP turned off.
  • The VS was set too high for the altitude selected and/or weight of the plane. The plane was at 100% thrust trying to maintain the climb and slowly loses airspeed until it stalls and AP turns off.
  • The plane was going too slow at cruise where it started bobbing and swerving to the point it disconnected AP

So far I have not reversed a single violation due to AP turning off magically. People like to generalize everything and say “My device messed up” or “It turned off on its own” but when we end up looking into it we usually see other reasons for it. Many times the replay itself will show leading up to the event. Speed slowly decreasing, etc.

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I mean, I know what your saying but what about trolls who pretend there out of control beczuse they think it’s hilariou. Which it isn’t of course.

If this has never happened then feel free to close.

That been said, has there ever been incidents related to turbulence flipping over an aircraft during cruise? I have found that the C750 gets thrown around a lot.

It’s hypothetical. I know not to make a post to appeal a violation.

Well the only time A380 actually stalled on me was during climb to 35000, but I was at over 33000 already, and stalled in a turn.

The A380 autopilot is definitely not very stable though. Sometimes the aircraft can keep pitching up.

Its the same autopilot as every other aircraft - its an old model - its physics need reworking.

MaxSez: I just Lov a Violation/Ghost Gripe early in my morning Forum review. Appears those Pilot Error prown Trash Haulers want a “Bye”, an excuse for their nefarious ways. Forgiveness that’s an act of charity. Charity begins at home!

Please stifle your your plies for relief or an honorable out. Stuff Happens, take a week off, learn a lesson, 99% of the time its the man not the machine!
MaxSends

(These Pilot Error Topics should be monitored more closely and closed early. They draw guppies who take the bait and bloviate!)

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If you are flying into an approach airspace and your AP goes out and your aircraft is out of control, although they may ghost you to begin with, it can generally be reversed depending on the situation and your argument.

You could also just stay away from controlled airspace especially if you KNOW you going to be away from your device mid flight

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I’m talking about cruising at 35000 ft over approach airspace, then falling into it…

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