Hold Short Issues

Hello dear Pilots and ATC stuff of IF!

I am new to IF and I want to ask some questions about the IF so I can enhance my flying experience.

I have some questions regarding hold short line.

1). In case i cross it, i might get violation right… But what to do if I cross it accidentally and there is no other way to exit the runway but to enter runway go straight and turn right. Pushback is not a solution as we only pushback on parking right? Also sometimes atc wants me to line up and wait runway and wheh I cross hold short line, however, he says: “disregard message” i am sorry stuff and wants me to exit active runway. Similar cases just different people being responsible for me crossing hold short line when I am not supposed to.

Also I have a question regarding VFR.
2). So, as many of you know, FF is a VFR service
I am commercial aircraft, so I must fly IFR. If I dont have flight plan though, then can I request VFR Flight following?

3). I still see people requesting flight following with commercial aircrafts but with filled flightplans, is it wrong?

so the last question:
If I am general aviation and I request VFR with flight plan what is the purpose for it ? What is the technical difference between FF with FPL and FF without FPL when I am flying general aviation.

Hope my questions are clear

Best Regards,

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Technically yes, however ATC don’t mind if you use the pushback feature to get back behind the hold short line. As long as you don’t interfere with other aircraft, you should be good.

If you don’t have a flight plan - you shouldn’t request flight following as that is VFR only - if you are flying visually then use it - but in other situations, just check in and leave it at that.

Yes, it’s a common mistake.

About your last question, I’m not sure.

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If you cross it and go on all the way and enter the runway, you will get a grade 3 violation. In addition to that, I don’t think appeals will remove your violation because you purposefully entered the runway. I would suggest, push back a little. It will prevent you from getting a violation. You might get a level 2 violation if you don’t go back quickly, but appeals will most probably remove the violation as you only crossed the hold short line a little bit.

In addition to the things already said: it really depends on the ATC in charge and the situation. For me as ATC, speaking personally, I try to help new aviators (we can see it because of their stats) in they learning journey on ES. If someone crosses the hold short line accidentally for let’s say 1-2 meters, I call: not cleared to enter the runway. So the person has enough time to react. If there is a conflict with another plane foreseeable and the time frame is very close I have to shoot a violation to prevent realism at all costs. If I see a pilot at my airspace who is trying to test limits, I’ll be more strict. Normally there are enough signs given by ATC before a violation. But as said, people are different. Every controller has its own personality, but we all have to stick to rules given by the games framework/manual. Where people are working together, there is always space for mistakes. Therefore we have the appeal team, doing a great job!

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Hey there! If you want to follow your flight plan (That’s an IFR feature) you will request check in, btw if you’re with an plan acknowledge but you want to continue VFR disregarding your original plan (Btw you can always back to it) you will request flying VFR

Hi Otavio!

Thanks for the reply.

Can I use VFR (Flight following)
If I just know my destination as FPL but have no routes and intermediate WPTs on IFR aircraft?

Hi BennyBoy!
Thanks for the reply!

I have the following idea in my mind:

If I am commercial aircraft (IFR aircraft type)
Have FPL: do check in (IFR)
No FPL: request FF to (destination if i have it as fpl but with no intermediate waypoints ) or VFR (just free flight so i have no idea where i fly)

If I am general aviation (VFR aircraft type):

Have FPL or dont have FPL request ff to destination or VFR (free flight), never do check in IFR.

Hello NayanNair!
Thanks for your reply.

But how can i pushback if i want a realism? Should i continue enter runway then exit it as soon as possible? I know that I will get violation but anyway want to correct my mistake realistically using non pushback method which is available only near parking spots.

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Hi Black Bird thanks for the reply!
Sometimes ATC tells me to enter runway then when i start crossing line by 4-5 meters they say not clear for takeoff and they are sorry for it they ask me to go back but I want realism so I dont pushback and enter the runway as fast As I can using forward motion and turning then to the taxiway. I am afraid they count it as not following instructions and ghost me :) or give violations etc

Hey, I had a similar situation at Princess Juliana yesterday while controlling. The pilot an me solved it as described. As I mentioned before: it really depends on the situation and the controller and his/her personality. I encourage realism, but you have to ask yourself if it is worth starting the appeals process when you receive a violation.

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All depends on you, for example, I am flying VFR (Making my flight based on visual references such as rivers, mountains or airports) to London Heathrow from Paris and center London is available, If you want to do an panoramic flight at the English Chanel you will request Flying VFR, if you are flying to Heathrow directly you will request FF and request descent to an determined altitude at your discretion. After being handed to approach you will request Approach (Visual or RV) and them you will be guided IFR and you just need to follow instructions


So to answer some of your questions with the vfr rules, a vfr flight plan doesn’t really have much point in IF. I haven’t played IF in a while, at least not online, so I don’t know exactly how that environment works, but pulling from the real world it’s basically just in case someone needs to find you later. It’s a backup for the worst case where you would have an incident, and later that day a friend reports you missing or something, just gives them an area to start the search. But at least in the real world ATC can’t see that information, the flight plan stays with flight services.

Now flight following is like instead of just telling someone where you are, you have them looking over your shoulder. They can help you with navigation, traffic avoidance, etc. But since you are VFR, you do not need an IFR rating, or rated plane, and you still must follow VFR visibility and cloud clearance requirements. Plus all traffic avoidance, and navigation still ultimately falls on your shoulders. Think of it as IFR lite.

Then you have IFR, which requires a flight plan filed with ATC. In the real world it requires an instrument rating for the pilot, and for them to be in an instrument rated plane but allows you to no longer abide by VFR cloud clearance and visibility requirements. When on an instrument flight you are under positive control of ATC the whole time, so ATC will tell you of all traffic, and keep you clear of terrain. While it’s obviously a good idea to keep an eye out for your own safety, since you could be in clouds, or zero visibility on this kind of flight plan the responsibility for keeping you clear of other planes or terrain falls on ATC. (Worth noting that this is the only kind of flight allowed above 18,000 feet)

That’s the thousand feet view of how it works in the real world at least.

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Thank you KPIT.
Eh its so much complicated actually :(

Both IFR and VFR are used by pilots and if ATC both checks them for traffic collisions and etc. why should VFR look outside the window?

Not exactly. VFR has to be looking out the window because you are flying visually, Visual Flight Rules, not just with your head in the cockpit on the instrument panel. VFR often does not have ATC giving you traffic notices, in fact usually you are not even in contact with ATC. Unless you are flying through controlled airspace (Class A, B, C, or D) then you do not have to be in contact with ATC (in classes E, and G). At many airports, and even flight routes you will just have to talk on the CTAF for the relevant airport and never talk to an air traffic controller. VRF traffic avoidance is built on the principle of see and avoid, so being aware of what’s around you and keeping a constant scan is very important. This is also part of why VFR flight is not allowed above 18,000 feet because the closing speeds will be much higher at higher altitude.

I’m the case of flight following they are just there to help you out, the responsibility still ultimately rests on your shoulders. I know it’s complicated, but most of this is not very applicable to Infinite Flight so don’t worry.

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It makes me clear now a bit. Thanks
Last question: if i am ultimately on myself and do see and avoid surroundings, and as you mentioned not contacting ATC, why should I request flight following VFR and contact them? I can just fly as I wish, or no?) Also, as far As I understand in VFR I have to always get vectors from the ATC, but after the sentence in which you said no contact with atc i am a bit confused

Briefly how do they help me if I am relying on myself

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I think you are mixing up VFR and IFR, when on an IFR flight you are always under the direct control of ATC, who will give you vectors and direct instructions. When you are VFR you are largely on your own. Particularly if you are in uncontrolled (class G), or class E airspace.

Let me take this back to the beginning a little, I think I’ve explained it poorly. So for flight following ATC will provide IFR like services, but the regulations explicitly say this is not made to relieve the pilot of any of their duties of VFR flight. So for example where on an Instrument flight ATC will give you direction or altitude vectors around traffic, on flight following they will just say traffic this direction, and this many miles or something, then it’s still on you to see that traffic, and avoid it. Same for terrain. The other main difference from an instrument flight is that with VFR flight following you are still VFR which means the normal cloud clearance and visibility minimums still must be adhered to.

This is all just how it works in the US though, this system will vary around the world, and how, or if it is implemented into Infinite Flight I’m not sure.

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Much thanks! Its all clear now
Have a nice day :)


Though ifr is said to be harder than vfr in simulations its only autopilot and full automation ahahaha technology improved so well. In real life its harder than vfr of course.

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Then there is only 2 ways. Either pushback or get violation. I know you want the realism, but there is nothing you can really do.

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If you did this in the real world, you’d have to call the tower and receive an angry earful from them about following procedures, you’d also probably have your ATPL suspended or taken away, and be fired from whatever company you’re working for. Along with your co-pilot too.

Aka, a violation. That’s what’s realistic.

As controllers in Infinite Flight, we won’t mind if you correct your mistake using pushback, as long as there isn’t another aircraft behind you. Sure, it’s not realistic, but it might just save you a violation.

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