Hi everyone,
Yesterday I made a flight from Indianapolis to Chicago O’ Hare. I think my approach was fine but my touchdown was odd. Could anyone tell me what I did wrong and what I could improve on?
Thanks!
Hello!
I just watched your replay. I’d just like to say one thing before explaining what I found: I’m not an E-Jets expert, so I may say something which isn’t 100% correct. My feedback will be based on my knowledge, and various sources I found around.
So, let’s talk about what I found in your replay that caught my attention.
- First of all, the approach speed and how you managed it. You used Flaps Full, which seems to be unusual for such aircraft if landing in long runways with a non-steep approach. This aspect certainly reduces your approach speed, but to me, it seemed too low, and, in addition, it was not properly managed. You set a speed of 130 KIAS on your A/P before disconnecting it, which seemed pretty good. However, after you disconnected the A/P, AP SPD included, it seems you kept the throttle in the position it was already in before disconnecting the Autopilot, giving a thrust of 50%/53% to the engines constantly. Due to you not managing the thrust by using your throttle, the aircraft slowly decreased its speed until the touchdown, which happened at 116 KIAS. Honestly, if the runway was some feet further than that, and you continued not to manage the speed, the aircraft would’ve probably stalled into the runway. Remember, the final approach speed needs to be properly managed either by you or the A/P, and it just can’t go too up or down, because it may result in bad endings for the aircraft.
You may use the Simbrief Performance & Tools to help you with your landing performance/calculations.
- The flare and the touchdown. It seems that you kinda flared twice. Initially, you slightly pointed up the nose (12:50:36) resulting in a long landing overall, and then, there was a 2nd “nose up” action (12:50:42) which was a bit harsh and resulted in a firm touchdown (> 300 ft/min). Due to this, the aircraft slightly bounced.
- The after-touchdown moments. It seems you had crosswind from coming from the left (ATC’s landing clearance said “wind 210° at 9 knots”). Probably, after touching down, the crosswind caught you a bit off guard. In fact, it seems you had some aggressive rudder inputs overall, going suddenly from the left to the right, and for this, the aircraft didn’t keep the centreline properly.
In addition, right after the touchdown, you kept pulling the yoke towards you, resulting in the aircraft pointing the nose up too much (almost tail striking) and finally, when you kinda let it go, the nose came down too strongly, resulting in it bouncing.
On a side note, I noticed you used way too much braking action by applying full reversers. If the runway is long enough, presents numerous RETs (Rapid Exit Taxiways), and various other factors, I don’t see why idle reverse can’t be used. By braking too much, in fact, you ended up being at <30 knots GS on the runway while another aircraft behind you risked going around because you were too slow.
I suggest you to have a read of the E175 Profile Guide and also look the E175 video tutorial, as well as the crosswind landing video tutorial.
In addition to looking at the various guides of the aircraft made by other IFC members, my last tip would definitely be to practice on Solo a specific aircraft before flying it. You can practice an aircraft today, and another tomorrow, until you’re good at every one of them!
I apologize for the long message, but I hope it was helpful! As I said above, I’m not an expert, nor an IRL pilot, but I do have some knowledge of the IF flying aspect.
Thank you, and have a good one! :)
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Thank you so much! I really appreciate it, This is really helpful. I do have a few questions:
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A few seconds before touchdown are you supposed to put the throttle down to 0%?
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When you spoke about the flaps, I used the SimBrief Performance Tools and it told me to use Full Flaps. And it told me to use a VAPP/VAAP of 128knots. Should I always follow SimBrief?
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How do you know how much trim to use at takeoff and at landing?
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When I turn off autopilot, should I keep autopilot on for speed only?
Thank you! :)
I am also not familiar with E-jets, but some general rule of thumbs:
- A few seconds before touchdown are you supposed to put the throttle down to 0%?
Yes, maybe rather a few feet before touchdown. I usually cut the throttle around 20 ft. But, it all depends on the situation. Sometime I have to cut it early because I am a little too fast, etc.
- When you spoke about the flaps, I used the SimBrief Performance Tools and it told me to use Full Flaps. And it told me to use a VAPP/VAAP of 128knots. Should I always follow SimBrief?
In real life, you follow performance charts based on your weight, density altitude, etc. SimBrief tries to build off of those, too. Since no model in simulation is perfect, I think it will be good to experiment and become familiar with your aircraft. That said, SimBrief suggested values can be a starting point.
- How do you know how much trim to use at takeoff and at landing?
This depends on how you calibrate your device. You need to think about it as a way to relieve back pressure on the device so you don’t have to tilt so much.
- When I turn off autopilot, should I keep autopilot on for speed only?
Generally, it’s good to turn off autopilot one by one. Speed usually being the last to cut. In real life, some aircraft manuals state that the use of AutoThrottle is preferred in all phases of flight (e.g. B777). However, I find IF’s AutoThrottle control loop has a significant lag when dealing with faster and heavier aircraft. I prefer to manually control the speed at that point.
Hope these help.
No worries at all, glad I could help!
- For most of the airliners, yes, you usually put the throttle to idle before touching down. However, I remember watching an MSFS live stream of the E-Jets, and the streamer, who probably knows more than me, said E-Jets don’t always put throttle to idle. I can’t confirm that though, Google may be your best friend in this case!
- I used this guide and this video to get the information about the Flaps, which were partly made by a real Embraer pilot. They say that Flaps Full should usually be used for steep approaches/short runways, which doesn’t seem to be the case for KORD. I’d say yes, you can surely trust Simbrief, but you can also use various sources, compare them and choose what’s the best to do.
- Once again, the tutorials here and on the IF YT channel may be useful. However, trim is something you change based on the situation, so it depends on various factors. Check this recent reply to a trim question: Arrow on the TRIM button? - #2 by Thunderbolt.
- I used to keep the A/P SPD on the whole time throughout my flights, approach included, until my flare, where I disconnected it and put the throttle to idle. However, recently, I got used to manually using the throttle throughout the final approach. This may help you since you are the one who actually manages the speed, and you can trust this more than the A/P, especially in windy situations. To make IRL examples, as far as I know, just to compare two aircraft, the A320 pilots usually keep the Autothrust on throughout the whole flight on the Climb detent (something not present on IF) and set them to idle during the flare; however, in aircraft such as the 737, the pilots disconnect the Autothrottle on the final approach/when they take control of the aircraft and manually control it all the way down.
My advice would be to learn to manually manage your speed during the approach, this will help you to improve your skills!
Once again, no problem! Thank you!
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About the flaps—I think there might be an issue with them in the sim. Going from flaps 3 to flaps 5, there is no flap movement sound and no visual change to the flaps. There also seems to be no change in flight characteristics. I know flaps 4 and flaps 5 are the same but there is a slat position difference between flaps 3 and flaps 4/5. Because of this I have been landing with flaps FULL. I’m gonna have to do some tests to see if the physics actually doesn’t change from flaps 3 to flaps 4/5 or if I’m just bad at flying the plane.
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